Homeowner trying to troubleshoot neglected and abused steam sys

Steamhead (in transit)

That's where Bruce Springsteen grew up!

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Linda R

I've been a bad homeowner, I let knuckleheads work on my system

Well after 10 years of living in a house with steam heat I finally found out about Dan’s book and learned about all the terrible stuff knuckleheads have been doing to my system and the neglect that I’ve perpetrated upon it. I wish I had this book when I moved in 10 years ago.

Examples: "No you don't need to flush this system every year". "You should convert to hot water heat. All you'd have to do is run some extra pipe" (Thank god I didn't listen to that one.)

So I’m attaching photos as requested. I have a Weil-McClean boiler, 1-pipe steam, 9 radiators total - 5 on first floor and 4 on second floor. In the photos of the boiler you are looking at old rust stains on there from repaired problems. Rust in the glass is old – boiler has since been cleaned, water is clear. I think the most recent guys I had work on this did good work. They replaced a clogged air vent, replaced a leaky section of iron pipe (with iron), replaced clogged pigtail and problematic pressurtrol (appears to be set to proper psi according to book), and noticed that exhaust was not venting properly, replaced rotten and clogged pipe to chimney and warned me that I need to get the chimney lined. They only replaced one of the air vents on the main and the other one looks old, but I don’t know if they tested it or not. Steam does get to the radiators along that pipe.

So AFTER all that work was done, my heating bill skyrocketed. I didn’t understand why – thought it would be better as everything should be working more efficiently. That’s why I bought the book.

All steam pipes are insulated properly except the returns you see around the boiler and the iron pipe sections leading to the 2 new downstairs radiators (~ 20 feet worth) which I will insulate. I’ve just today replaced 2 steam vents that were not operating properly and just letting steam out – the others seem to be working ok and all the radiators are heating fine. I think my thermostat is not one made for steam systems – it’s a programmable Honeywell from Home Depot – doesn’t seem to have any settings for CPH cycles per hour or anything on it for boilers.

3 of the radiators were fiddled with when I had an addition done about 5 years ago. All of them were installed with copper piping attached to the iron steam pipes and installed perfectly leveled. So that’s one problem. Pipes to the 2 radiators downstairs may be able to be replaced since they’re accessible in the crawl space. Originally there was just one radiator here – now 2. Probably another problem. The upstairs one was installed exactly in place of an old radiator that was leaking but inexplicably it appears there is copper pipe coming up out of the floor when I know the feed pipes from the first floor are iron. That radiator has the steam vent installed in the wrong place too – its at the top of the radiator (like where it should be for hot water heat). But the radiator heats. Anyway, I’ve fixed the pitch on the radiators but now will probably have to get someone in to look at the piping situation. I still have banging associated with the copper piping to the 2 new downstairs radiators.

I still am not sure if I’ve done everything to maintain my boiler the way I should and make sure my gas bills are as low as they can be, and I’m not really sure what my next step is.

Advice would be appreciated.

Supply House Rick

you're forgiven

because you now want to do right by your boiler.

1st, get a thermostat which is rated for steam. if you do not need set back, then the round honeywell is about as simple as you can get, and most of those hockey-pucks are steam capable, but check the box.

2nd check your pressure and get it as low as you can. a good gauge [gaugestore.com 0-2 psi] will make this easier, but leave the old 0-30 psi on for code. why not put on a vaporstat as well, then you are there at 12 ounces.

3rd i would assume after 10 years of knuckleheading that the main air vents are tired or dead. i would put gorton #2's on each dry return in a protected piping arangement so they don't get water-hammered.

i'll let others study your piping around the boiler and pass comment. certainly the installation of insulation would be good and a do-it-yourself project.--nbc

Unknown

geezzzz

"Copper" too long for hartford loop nipple.. That boiler looks like eg 50 or 55.. Easily made into double drop header. Where are the main steam vents at? Where are you located? There are steam pros out there, matter of finding them on this site.

Bill_110

I'm not sure you've been a bad homeowner, but depending on where you live it might be a real challenge to find someone who isn't a knucklehead. I'm just a homeowner with a knuckleheaded system like you, and I also got Dan's books, so I'm trying to hone my troubleshooting skills. So till some heavyhitters way in more here is what Gets my attention : It looks like one of your air vents is right at the end of your return instead of approx 16 inches back, and it should also be up on a 10 or 12 " nipple, which it looks like the one I see in your picture doesn't have. It also looks like you have three returns coming back to the boiler, so having three of these main air vents would be in order. You say you think they work, but they may not be working optimally if there air flow is constricted by too much water being thrown up into them.

One thing that sort of surprises me is that your Weil-MClain boiler has only one riser. I used to have a Weil-McClain, and it had two boiler risers coming from the top. It was my impression (maybe partly due to the fact I had a hugely oversized one)that Weil-McClain was almost more of a light commercial brand, and that they didn't make boilers for small residential use anymore. I can't quite make out the location of an equalizer in your piping, which is an important thing to have. Maybe youve got it but I'm just not seeing it. It should be at the end of the header that your system risers come up out of, and should feed back into the boiler. You may not have one - actually my old system completely lacked one believe it or not. (Now I've got one but it's in the wrong place, I guess thats some progress). Your vent looks strange to me too. My two boilers had the vent coming out of the middle top of the boiler, yours seems to have some sort of add on box. Also you don't seem to have a vent damper on your exhaust vent. Some people seem to minimize this, but I know that with my old Weil-McClain boiler that big (in my case 10 inch) vent pipe was constantly radiating heat up the chimney, which a vent damper would have closed off at the end of the firing cycles. One thing you should take note of is how often your boiler cycles on and off. My old oversized unit would come on a lot and not really heat all that much/long. I think in my case anyway a vent damper would have kept a lot of heat in the building and kept the boiler hotter. By the way, if you insulate your pipes really well your basement should be fairly chilly. I know the difference before and after I did all mine was going from the warmest place in the house to by far the coldest. In that case the vent damper heat makes it a little more comfortable for being downin the basement than it would otherwise be. I think my post is getting too long, so I'd advise you to be systematic in checking out all the components of the system, take some notes even. I'm sure you'll get a lot of informed advice here, but only you are on the spot to tell how it is really working, so you have to help your own cause by being observant. Its kind of like you had an allergy and were expecting a doctor to discover it, but really it would be up to you to try to narrow the possibilites by modifying your usual diet etc etc and observing the effects. I guess we'd all like to have a courteous and informed expert who gives a fair price to figure everything out for us. But in reality, you will be dealing with knuckleheads, or to be fair maybe semi-knuckleheads who are still going to be charging you a lot for their time. Good luck.

Linda R

I'm in NJ

New Jersey

There is one listed in the professionals section but I wanted to understand what I am doing and try to take care of anything I can myself before I called them.

jimmac

Linda...

easiest thing for you to do yourself would be to check to see if the boiler is leaking steam! usually if the chimney pipe is that rotted and clogged it is a sign.excessive gas bill is another, shut the switch , fill the boiler up passed the gauge glass until the water comes through the pop safety(you will have to open the handle on the relief valve yourself),and checked to see if any water come out the bottom of the boiler....

Steamhead (in transit)

At the Ends of your Dry Returns

It looks like you have Gorton #1 vents. I would consider adding at least a Gorton #2 to each.

When it comes to steam mains, the more venting, the better!

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Mad Dog_2

Hi Linda.....Help is just an email or phone call away

We consult on problem steam systems just like yours all over the Tristate area. Reversing the bad things that were done is alot of work, but we can give you solid guidance. Mad Dog

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tommyoil

Where are you.....

In NJ?

steve_29

Looks like you have or at least had, a problem with the venting.
Seems to have either burn marks or soot coming from the vent collector.

Linda R

Monmouth County

Linda R

Yes, that was fixed...

Linda R

I'd like to try to do this but need more detailed instructions..

in baby-speak.:-) I'm not sure where the relief valve is you are talking about. I do know how to manually fill the boiler - have done that before.

I don't know what the pop safety is. There's a thing coming out of the top of the boiler on the left hand side that has a loose lever-like attachment on it and is connected to a copper pipe that goes over the left side of the boiler and ends in an open end near the floor. Is that it?

Also, if/when water starts to come out of the boiler, how do I stop it before I get a flood?

steve_29

Yes that's the relief valve.

If you release it and water continues coming out, shut the feed off!

It should stop when you release it , if it doesn't you'll need to replace it.

Wouldn't you feel more comfortable having a professional test this for you?

Linda R

Not if they're going to charge me for something I could easily..

do myself if I had proper instructions. I don't have extra cash to spare.

Can anything break when I do this that would result in an emergency?
Do I need special tools?
Do I need more brute strength than I have?

If the answers to the above are no. Then I'd like to try it myself. I have a good brain, I can follow instructions and I'm careful and detail-oriented, and am not afraid of machinery.

But please do let me know what "could go wrong."

tim smith

Linda, I added tags to one pic for identifying components.

Hope this helps in your quest. you may need to right click on attachment and open in new window, I don't know why but seems to be the case.

tommyoil

Im in Ocean

And service Monmouth and Ocean every day.

tommyoil

Same county Frank

We fuel his farm in a neighboring town. You must be a fan!

Linda R

How to ??s Testing boiler for leaks...

Ok, I'm going to try this out tonight. Testing the boiler for leaks.

So there's a couple of things I don't understand about jimmac's instructions above. He says I need to open the handle on the relief valve. I know where the valve is is now thanks to Tim Smith putting labels on my photo. Is the handle the lever on the top that I need to tip up to open it, or is there another "handle" somewhere?
The second thing I need to understand is once I've filled the boiler to test for leaks, do I then just drain it out (I think I would use the red faucet on the front of the boiler to do that.)? Is that correct?
And then I drain it down so that the water level is half-way up the sight glass, right?

Thanks for your help. I'll post the results.

Linda

nicholas bonham-carter

testing for leaks

don't forget to let the boiler cool thoroughly before adding water, and opening the relief valve. a short legth of hose would make draining after the test easier.

we admire your sense of inquiry in this, and hope you will be safe in these operations.--nbc

JK_3

Test for leaks

My first thought would be losing water also.and it's just coincidental that it happened after the last guys workrd on it. I just wanted to comment that the test is not a 100% test for a leaking boiler. I just had onr the other day that did not leak on the fill test, but was a cracked boiler that the crack would open upon heating and the water was running down the exchanger but vaporizing before visable. I was able to see it using my see snake. I only mention this because I would hate to see you Repair things on a boiler that needs replacing.Pressure testing is a more reliable method but I don't know that it is something you would want to attempt on your own.I also don't know if the one I had the other day would have shown under a pressure test or not. I am also not to far from your area but I also respect mad dog's opinions.

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Linda R

Yeah, my thoughts also

I figure no sense spending money on vents etc if the major problem is that the boiler's got a leak.
My plan is to test the boiler. If no leak, then have a water meter installed on the autofeed, replace the air vents on the main and the thermostat.

I didn't do the test this weekend because of the big snow storm predicted. I figured I didn't want to mess with the boiler right before a major storm.

I have off tomorrow (Monday) so will probably try it then.

I really appreciate all the advice you folks are giving me.
Thanks,

Linda