Steam pipe diameter and insulation question

Mark Z_2

Sean, hear ya on the piping. The riser that leaves your main line usually starts w/ a T in the main set at ~45 deg, then a nipple, followed a 45deg elbow all set so that the angle of the remaining riser is roughly a 1/2" of upward rise per foot. You might be able to reduce the length of that initial nipple to increase the pitch. PITA, but it can be done and I've personally done it. Further, upon re-assembly and once the piping is open, a T, w/ an extra air vent could be installed. Not a big $$ cost, but a lotta of grunt work on your end. In the nd you'll still keep a good pitch. Best of luck.

Mark Z

Sean M

Steam pipe diameter and insulation question

I am new to steam heat, but I picked up the Holohan book and have been accessing my system. I have two concerns about my current system: uneven heat, and efficiency. Right now, I am trying to address the first. Most of the original house is fine and toasty, however the wing that was added about 100 years ago is cold (usually 15 degrees colder than the rest of the house). It has a single monster 22 column, six tube radiator that barely warms up. That radiator is fed from a 35' long 1 1/2" steam pipe (the rest of the system uses standard 2" pipes). I insulated the pipes, changed the radiator steam valve and made sure the pitch was correct on the radiator. Now is gets warmer, but not enough to make that part of the house much warmer. I have noticed that the return pipe is ice cold on that line, but hot/warm on the other two. Is that an issue? Should I insulate the return lines? Is the lesser diameter pipe causing problems?

I am planning on changing the main vent on that line today, but short of that I am not sure what else to do. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Sean

bob young

radiator

pipe diameter waaaaaay undersized . 1 1/2 " would probably work check air vent [ quick vent might help -- "D " ] & return could possibly be obstructed.

Sean M

It is 1 1/2". My measurement was incorrect.

Where do I find a "quick vent"?

Is there a way to check for obstruction in the return?

Thanks,
Sean

bob young

TRY Pex Supply

scrook_2

PEX supply

Is the smaller main vented?

Under "Heating Supplies" look for a Gorton #1 or #2 air valve to vent the main, (a #2 is about equal to 4 #1's) and a (slower to faster) Gorton #5, #6, C, or D angle valve for the radiator. A "D" would be the fastest.

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Does that 35 foot pipe have a main vent.....

If not, it needs one to get the steam out to the radiator at the same time as the other radiators get steam. Also, a radiator that big needs alot more venting than most. To balance one pipe steam systems, you need very big vents on the mains, and small ones on the radiators. If you have adjustable vents on our radiators, usually a setting of 2 1/2 or 3 is the highest setting you want. For that monster rad, maybe 3 or 3 1/2. If you restrict the venting on the other radiators, it will help the steam move to all the radiators at very low pressure (ounces, not pounds)....assuming you have good and large main vents.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

World Plumber

vents

I would get either 2 Gorton #1's or 2 d's at the end of the line and put a heattimer varivent on the radiator.
It does make a diffrence. You need to get the air out for the steam to get there. I have an old house when the addition was added they didn't dig a basement under it and did not put vents in the mains. On cold days the temperatue diffrence was sometimes as high as 40 degrees. I drilled and taped, and added vents with help of the venting charts. Now the whole house is with in 1/2 degree down to zero I wasn't home this year when it went to subzero. But my neighber sent me an e-mail saying the house was staying withing in a 1/2 degree range.
If afer getting all the vents the radiator doesn't give enough heat you may want to replace it with 2 smaller ones. But first you have to vent the air.
Get youself a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heat or the steamy deal at the bottom of the page. It is well worth it.
Mark

Michael P. Bourque

Consider this

It must have worked long ago when the new radiator and line were installed. One thing that can happen is that the addition has sagged and is no longer at the same level as when it was new.

It could be that the pipe supplying that radiator is pitched badly due to foundation settling. It could be pitched in such a way that it is filled with water.

Sean M

Not its own. There are three lines coming out of my boiler. The installer tapped the middle line and pulled the 35' line off of that. Should I give its own vent even though the main it shares already has one?

Sean

Sean M

No the smaller main shares the larger main vent.

Sean M

Funny you should say that. The boiler guy came out yesterday to do the annual maintenance on my boiler. I told him of my woes and he took a quick look at it. He noticed the feed line looked pitched slightly down. I got my level and showed it was indeed ever so slightly pitched down. He suggested I probably have a water trap. He said he wasn't a steam expert, so I am not sure of what he said, but not that you asked perhaps I need to get someone in here to fix it.

Sean

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Usually good Practice...

to add a main vent to a brach that is that long. There is alot of air in it and if you make the raditor vent large enough to vent all that extra air, it may be venting so fast that the steam enters the radiator too quickly and causes banging and/or spitting air vents. If that pipe does have a downward slope, get it so it slopes up to the radiator.


Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

nicholas bonham-carter

water trap

as a temporary expediant, you could jack up the radiator on all 4 legs, and put equal sized blocks under them. that could raise the pipe and drain it.--nbc

bob young

aux. main

the branch should be addressed as a MAIN. sloped toward radiator & connected to return w/ main vent.

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

bob's probably right.....

With a radiator that big on a 1 1/2 inch supply, treating it as a main pitched down is probably best.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mark Z_2

steam pipe diameter and insulation question.

Sean, if riser (psuedo alt. main line) has potential down slope, go with NBC's sugestion about jacking up the rad with equal blocks to lift and produce a better pitch on the riser. Caution thou, that mofo-RAD probably weigh 300-350lbs, careful. Futher, you could also drill/tap a port on the RAD for a secondary air vent. Higher vent should be at least a 'D', lower vent maybe a '5'. This way you would avoid spitting should steam enter too fast. Think of it this way, 35 ft of pipe and 88 sq EDR rad, that's a boat-load of air to get out. Try the small low cost fixes first, ultimately sounds like you're going to need a Gorton #2 vent added onto the riser itself. In that configuration it's functioning more like a main line.....lotta of air to get out. Best of luck.

Mark Z

Sean M

Unfortunately, that won't work in my case, because the pipe is right against the ceiling. Also, the sub-main is made up of a 25' delivery and wet-return. Branched off of that is a 15' line to the radiator. If I pulled up the radiator, it would only pull the branch up which seems to have the right pitch.

I noticed that the sub-main branches off upward at about a 45 degree angle. If I dropped it to be parallel with the ground that would drop it a good 3" on that end. I am wondering if that will work, or will that screw up how it flows?

Sean

bob young

FIX IT.. we told you how.

you need a competent plumber who understands steam. it was done wrong right from the git-go.& can be corrected to work perfectly. just might cost a few dineros but should be well worth it . sounds like a great radiator & when you fix the supply it will work great for the rest of your life. if you turn on the thermostat !! lol