boiler piped backwards

billtwocase

It sounds like this is a cold start boiler? how's the circulators wired in? Correcting the piping would be better for the boiler i feel, but I don't think there will be any savings by doing it. I'm surprise that pulling cold water down hasn't ruined the "O" rings. If it has to maintain temp because of circs not wired right, a panel relay would be a savings. maintain abou 110 degrees, 180 when the zones call for heat. Maybe an indirect will save them the utility that heats their hot water? peace

rjm

I have a customer that has a Weil Mclain 566 piped backwards (ie. supplies system out of bottom front tapping/returns to top rear tapping). System has 7 circulators and flow checks (all facing the right/wrong way).
My question is how savings would be expected if corrected? Or how much extra money is he wasting?
And I did suggest OD Reset.

billtwocase

I'd start from scratch, along with the boiler. The 66 series is from the seveties and wasn't much of a boiler then or now. Probably still has the old ABC or Wayne that came on those. Very early Attempts at flame retention. If they are looking to save, but not go overboard, Weil Gold series, indirect, Honeywell z/v's, Carlin EZ-1, set up as rear flue. If not than triple pass,indiect, ODR. peace

rjm

Come on now..
With the economy the way it is this family is trying to cut cost. I know long term, it would be the best solution, But not what they want.
They ask me if the problem could be corrected, and what they would expect in savings. They are using roughly 1000 gallon a winter. Heat only! And the burner has been upgraded to a Beckett afg a few years ago

[Deleted User]

boier piped backward

this is done to protect boiler from thermal shock as it keeps cold water from reaching the fire side tube sheet.

Unknown

Reverse Flow

Piping the boiler for reverse flow may not necessarily be a problem. I ran into a similar situation recently and described it in this posting linked below.

Have you done a combustion analysis and measured the stack temp? In my situation the boiler was only running a 300F stack and a calculated efficiency of 83.5%

So, the reversed supply and return piping may not necessarily be the reason for the high fuel bills. In fact, the reverse piping may actually increase the efficiency. You might want to leave it alone.

Outdoor reset may be the best way to save them some money in fuel costs.

Boiler Piped for Reverse Flow

billtwocase

I would also check the boiler sizing. This is a 5 section boiler. This thing could also be overkill. I have some homes less than 2000 SF with 8 zones. Like electric heat, every room has it's own zone, even the bathrooms. go figure. I know exactly where you are coming from with the economy. I run a full service oil company. I see both fuel/eqipment. Good luck. peace

clammy

just a thought

Hello JR how big is the home? do you think that they really need all those pumps or do you think they could get by with using one pump and zone valves ? that would make a re pipe a bit easier and cut the electrical comsumed by them ,and maybe add a thermitic return valve or a system by pass to protect against pro long low return temps and a pressure differntal valve so as not to over pump your zones when only one or 2 are calling.Of course i would expect a good mirco air elimator and proper pump location andf maybe use a nice IFC pump or better yet a variable speed pump ,There's alot of opition but if you re piper right the future cost of boiler replacement would be less due to the already improved distrubition system.as for savings on just a re pipe on the existing boiler just repiped is very hard to say but from my experences i have found that in most cases using pumping that the comfort levels of the HO was much better no air promblems any more and a slightly reducution in fuel usuge seems most on the oil side burned less fuel ,while i have seen replacement boiler like a gold replacing a 66 make fuel saving of at least 15 to 20 percent and i do belive it was mostly due to the piping and pump location over the eff of the new unit some of those 66 that where properly serrviced and cleaned with up graded burner where not to bad but all said and done the largest saving i have seen are defentily with using boilers that are of a 3 pass design and have removable baffles (buderus G115 g215)even though any boiler may not be in the budget a re pipe in my opion is not a waste ,not change subject but how well is the home insulation ,windows and door as some one else had said you must tighten the envoulpe peace and good luck clammy

scrook_2

but

it's a cast iron, sectional, pinned heat exchanger, vertical single pass boiler (W-M 5 section series 66) not a steel firetube boiler, so there's no tube sheet!

If thermal shock / low temperature protection is required, better to install a bypass.

rjm

Thanks for the help/info.
The original house is an 1800's federalist style house. From what I can tell, the house was totally remodeled when they had an in-law apartment added to the rear(4yrs ago). The house is roughly 3500sq ft.
Most of the zones are baseboard with 2 hydro-air units. The boiler does maintain temperature of 130* and runs up to 180* during a call for heat. The efficiency is 82%, and don't think that the upgrade will get done. I doubt they need individual circs for each zone and will see if they will consider replacing them with zv. But upgrade cost may out way the actual savings. So,I think OD Reset will do for now, until the boiler is upgraded. And at that point we will correct the piping.

billtwocase

isn't it amazing

People will invest money into anything except their boiler. The house was remodeled 4 years ago, that's when they should have upgraded that boiler. The age of that house also tells me it has a potato basement-not a full basement, and a drafty brick/stone foundation. Been in hundreds of them old houses. You'll be amazed at the heat loss from down below. Ofcourse this winter is just about at a close, so there is no way to know what savings they will have untill next year. It will create work for you, but I think that will be all that it is. peace

Mad Dog_2

Is that going to be a smart way to spend their money?

I would say leave it alone until they can afford to do it right...that is an qeustion of thermal efficiency and I will defer to greater minds...but my gut is that savings wouldn't that great to justify putting ALL the labor and materials in to it. Can you post a pic? Mad Dog

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