Need help identifying a steam system

Steamhead (in transit)

Is what it sounds like you are looking at. The inlet valves should be adjusted to meter the steam into the radiators but not get into the dry returns.

Big main vents should be added at the ends of the dry returns, the more, the better, and the vents at the radiators removed and plugged.

A vaporstat should be added to keep the pressure below 1/2 psi and a low pressure gauge added to check the pressure. These systems typically operate at 1/4 psi. Really, they do.

Do a radiation sizing to check the sizing of the boiler.

Please post pictures.

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Jim Bergmann_5

I went out to look at a two pipe steam system that a couple has been having trouble with for about 3 years. It is a two pipe system with dry returns, and no traps. I am thinking that the return elbows are some type of a special fittings, but they look like a standard elbow. The system was built in the 20's, Ohio Brass radiator valves, There is no main air vent, and their are some radiator vents (about 80% of the radiators.

The system would not heat. Returns ice cold, heat to radiators but not into them. I unscrewed the vent and the radiator started to heat. First problem that I saw was the system was set at 8#, an operating on a pressure control. I reset it to 1 psi, and the system did start to heat. Most (all but 1) of the radiators started to heat all the way across. The returns however are not getting hot making me believe that the system iS operating like a one pipe whether it was designed to or not. The steam enters and returns our the bottom of the radiator.

The boiler was replaced about 3 years ago and the system has not heated well since. The gas bill this month for them was $800.00 and the house would not go over 61 degrees.

Hopefully lowering the steam pressure will solve about 90% of the problems, but I am wondering was there a system that was two pipe, had no main vent, dry return and without traps? Water line is stable when the boiler is operating and the system does seem to be getting the water back.

Steamhead (in transit)

There sure was

It's known as the Tudor or Orifice system. Frederic Tudor's original design came out in 1885. It was a work of pure genius. It's so simple that it confuses a lot of people.

Basically, you keep the pressure low. An orifice at the inlet to each radiator (which may be part of the valve or a separate disc) allows in only enough steam to fill the radiator to 80% or so at design pressure. This way the steam never reaches the dry returns. You can eliminate a lot of moving parts this way.

You should have a vent on the dry return as well as on each steam main. Control the boiler with a Vaporstat. Find the sweet spot where the system heats without steam getting into the returns.

How about some pics?

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Steamhead (in transit)

Great Minds

think alike!

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Jim Bergmann_5

That's what I was thinking, but I thought that the steam came into the top of the radiator and out the bottom. I have not seen one that is on and out the bottom of the radiator. Also there are no vents on this system except those on the radiator. I am guessing that the main lines were removed when the new boiler was installed.

Any guess on the savings by correcting the pressure and adding the vents?

Also why would the returns be cold? could they have been air locked due to the return not being vented? When you say vent the end of the return, are you talking the highest point on the system or at the end of the riser in the basement?

I will take some photos of the boiler and the radiators.

Steamhead (in transit)

It would work

with either top or bottom inlets. Maybe you have older steam-only radiators that don't have top tappings?

I would agree the system was probably knuckleheaded when the boiler was replaced.

You vent the dry returns where they come together, usually this is in the boiler room. The returns should be warm when the system has run for a while, but never steam-hot.

Hard to estimate savings, but we know some of our customers have saved over 30%. Your mileage may vary.

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Jim Bergmann_5

Thanks, I will get some photos up.

I really have to study the close piping on this thing. It has a split header and duel equalizers, 1/2 copper and 1/2 black pipe. The header and equalizer lines are the same size, both 2.5"

The water line is good, but I wonder what will happen when I correct the vent problems and start getting the steam out to the system. Also not a line on this thing is insulated. I am working on that also.