Invention Help - small, lighter flame catalyzed heating system

zeke

Well, to heat up a cylinder to 350 F of the size you mentioned, you could easily by trial and error, using almost any point heat source like a propane lighter, make like a plumber, controlling the size of the flame.
Copper would be better than aluminum and the high conductivity would assure an almost uniform temperature on the surface, and thus to the inside of the cylinder.
Trial and error would get you almost any temperature you need.

Try it with a piece of 1 inch copper tube that you can get in Home Depot.

Sorry about that 3 year comment, but maybe with the economy where it is thanks to some of our great economists like Rubin, engineering might be a better choice for you.

Vikram

Small heating system that produces constant heat for 10 minutes

I am a 4th year economics undergrad, with no engineering/chemistry/etc. background.

I am attempting to pursue construction of a prototype for a potential invention. To do this, I need to figure out a way to create a small, cylindrical heating system that will use a lighter flame (for consumer convenience) to catalyze a reaction that will result in the inside of the cylinder emitting heat at about 350 degrees F, for a period of time of about 10 minutes. The contraption is intended to be disposed after the reaction time.

The process I've come up with so far (based on... internet research) is to place something like aluminum oxide, with high thermal conductivity, on the cylinder where the lighter flame will come in contact with it. The aluminum oxide will act as a heat transfer agent between the flame and the cylinder. The aluminum oxide (inside the cylinder) is in contact with a sheet form of aluminum, which has an emissivity of like 0.09, that will then emit the heat within the cylinder. The transfer of heat from the aluminum oxide to the sheet aluminum should bring the temperature being emitted within the cylinder to 300-400 degrees F.

The issue now is how to keep that rate of heat emission constant for a certain period of time (~10 minutes), using only ONE application of the lighter flame to the system. What I am envisioning is some sort of fuel source (ground up shelled corn?) that can be fitted in the vicinity of the aluminum oxide, and when the aluminum oxide is heated, this causes small combustions of the heat source, which in turn reheats the aluminum oxide, and the aluminum oxide keeps heating the sheet aluminum.

Any ideas on potential fuel sources, and more importantly, any ideas on how to structure the setup of the fuel source in relation to the aluminum oxide so that it doesn't all combust at once, but instead there is an incremental combustion process for a period of time?

The contraption wouldn't include any electrical source or, say, computer chip to monitor the rate of combustion.

I know this is complicated to understand through text, but I really appreciate any help you all can give me. Ask for any clarification if you need it.

Mark Custis

I type with students all the time

Ask my daughter.

I understand what you seem to want.

Single ignition for a fixed degree time of 10 mins?

Low cost fuel?

Why do we care about al/oxide?

Do you get to own this if it works?

Well I do not like to burn food. Burning food is counter productive. So we must find a fuel, that is not food like Lake Erie algea or switch grass.

We must amass the fuel so that it developes a substained burn for your 10 mins.

I am Old what was the delta T and design in F or C?

mark ransley

What is it, something to make CRACK.

Vikram

Responses, responses

re: crack, lol nooo... what makes you think that? Just because a lighter is used?

Mark Custis: the most important thing right now is the constant heat for 10 minutes. Anybody, any ideas? If I simply amass the fuel around the heated aluminum oxide, what's to prevent it all from combusting at once? And if it all doesn't combust at once, how is the design going to allow me to burst them at intervals to keep heat constant?

This cylinder is part of a contraption, I mean I don't expect I could even OWN this cylinder because I feel sure something like this must have been created before. If only I could find it.

The reason I chose sheet aluminum and aluminum oxide is because they're both recyclable materials.

The degrees are Fahrenheit, and I'm not sure what you mean by delta T. Change in time? That would just be the ten minutes.

Ted_5

fuel source

what about wood pellets? They would burn slowly.

Ted

zeke

I assume the 350 deg is measured at the surface of the cylinder.

What size cylinder are you thinking?
Your biggest problem is an ignition system followed by finding a fuel for this. And how much will this sell for?
Also, have you done a patent search to see if the device is already invented so that you won't be wasting time?

Finally, what in the world is a 3rd year economics student doing in this complex field ?

Unknown

I agree on the wood pellets as

they typically burn for much longer than 10 minutes when dumped by the auger into my cast iron container to burn.

Delta T is temperature difference, and make sure when you are doing this you have proper air for combustion and ventilation air as burning makes carbon monoxide and we do not want to lose you.Do you have combustion testing equipment? Not only is that safe but will substantiate your efficiency findings with documented readings.

Charlie from wmass

I think you need the bomb making forum. We heat homes blowing them up is another place. is aluminum oxide one of the components used on the hindenberg?

Vikram

Wood pellets is a good possibility, but they would have to be ground up or cut into centimeter sized bits to fit into my contraption. It can't be too hard to engineer such small wood bits that basically have the same burning properties as large wood chips, just on a smaller scale, right (i confess i know nothing about the world of wood chips)?

The delta T for this is the flame from a typical lighter (3590 degrees Fahrenheit) to about 330 degrees fahrenheit (the heat is transferred first to aluminum oxide which has a high emissivity - above .9 - and then transfered from the al oxide to sheet aluminum which has an emissivity of about .09).

About the carbon monoxide... this is why I amateurishly (perhaps) considered something like shelled corn which... should... burn a bit cleaner?

Zeke: No, the 350 F is measured inside the cylinder. Cylinder size is small, right around 3 inches long and 1-1.5 inches high. Have I done a patent search? Not for this part... honestly, is it really possible in your engineering world that someone hasn't created a fire-ignition cylindrical heat system that has a constant temperature for the duration of the reaction?

I'm a 4TH year economics student. Give me a little credit, that extra year's costing me enough to insist on it.

Thanks for the interest guys. I really needed to get past reading random internet search turn ups to start understanding what this is about.

Bigugh_5

I'd think

That a butane or propane fueled wrap around infrared blanket type burner could be the answer. 10 minutes fuel supply spark(piezo) ignition. a once started 10 minute fuel supply locked into enough heat and throw away item. all the fuel buned, only the aluminum device left.
SO ???

clammy

charcoal bbq starters

check out charcoal barbe que starters and maybe camping back pack chimmey stlye cookers they both work off wood or for your case pellets(possibilly cow chips) and maybe with a little modafation on top outlet and bottom air inlet you may reach your goal,also take a look at the traditional african chimmey ovens recently meet a gentleman using on to barbeque at a park he stated there used all over africa peace and good luck clammy

Vikram

Yes, I imagine getting the desired temperature shouldn't be too hard. What I'm uncertain of is the mechanics with which I could keep a certain fuel source supplied over a 10 minute period to keep the temperature constant, but at the same time not have all of the fuel, packed into such a small space, combust at once.

About the use of butane fuel, if I applied this to the cylinder wouldn't it mean that the fuel is basically going to be on fire for the length of the time of the reaction? Not simply small combustions keeping the alum oxide hot, but an actual flame that's burning inside the cylinder? That might be impractical, definitely it would be better if I could use a fuel source that arrives at an EMBER-LIKE BURN much like I imagine wood pellets would. Any other fuel options on this one?

A few economists foresaw the financial crisis, and the one's who didn't, didn't because they're stupid. I mean, really, in an environment of an extreme housing bubble, blatant lying on mortgage filings (did anyone see the documentary "House of Cards"?), wall street bankers who knew how sub-prime these loan recipients were and still decided to basically pollute every mortgage-security they had with them, and credit rating agencies that rated EVERYTHING triple A (anybody who bothered to examine the ratio of triple-A ratings to anything less than triple-A should have noticed that something was not legitimate here)... why couldn't everybody see the crisis? Anyways, I don't mean to start an off-site discussion.

Vikram

Note: I really WOULD like to use something like shelled corn, something with high thermal product but burns CLEAN, with wood pellets there's some chance of the contraption being thrown out with a single ember still hot, ie fire hazard.

Doug_7

Catalytic Heater

Google: catalytic hand warmer

Made by Zippo. A platinum-catalyzed fiberglass burner chamber oxidizes a liquid fuel - typically lighter fluid. No actual flame - just the liquid fuel oxidizing with air at a lower temperature than a flame which produces heat.

You start it by applying a flame for a few seconds to heat up the catalyst in the burner chamber. After that it continues to oxidize and provide heat for hours.

You stop it be removing the burner chamber from the fuel chamber. The catalyst cools down and stops oxidizing the fuel.

If you use methanol as fuel (NOT RECOMMENDED) it will start ozidizing anytime the fuel and air combine over the catalyst without applying a flame to start it. Very dangerous but has some applications.

Alternately use Sterno (Jellied Methanol) as your fuel - it will burn for a long time when lit.

Methanol can be produced by gasifying garbage, so can be made from green sources.

An older, simpler but more dangerous type of hand warmer uses charcoal sticks. Ignite them and they continue to glow for hours with restricted air supply. Could use charcoal as sticks or pellets.

Regards,

Doug