Solar Project - DF

Dan Foley

Hot Rod,

I appreciate all your help on this project. We could not have done it without you.

The insulation is a 1" closed cell insulation recommended by BWI Insulation for this use. There is no plastic jacket but we did brush on a protective white mastic, also recommended by BWI. We are using a jacketed insulation on our current project. -DF

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Dan Foley

Solar

Here is a solar project we recently completed in Bethesda, MD. Brian was the lead on this one but just about everyone in my company was here at some point. A big thank you to Hot Rod, Siggy and Mike Miller (Wild Man) for much needed assistance.

We used four Viessmann flat panels for DHW pre-heat as well as feeding a slab radiant system when BTU's are available. A Caleffi pump station, control and SS piping feeds a Super-Stor dual coil solar tank. A TT Prestige kicks in when solar cannot meet the load. A hot deck in a variable speed AHU provides 2nd stage.

The pictures do not do justice to just how tight the mechanical room is. Brian had his hands full fitting it all in.

Solar is a new addition to our arsenal. We have four projects completed and two more in the pipeline. We are still finding our way with solar "best practices". - DF

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Dan Foley

Mechanical

Here are some photos of the mechanical room as well as a schematic.

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Dan Foley

House

The house was built in the late 1940's by a famous architect, Marcel Breuer (sp). The current owner is an architect and restored it true to the original design. This link shows some photos of the job in progress:

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=407448&_#Message407448



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Ron Huber_2

Why?

Nice clean work, but my question is. Why does everybody getting into solar insist on tying in what amounts to a solar domestic hot water system into sending btu's to slabs, air handlers etc. ? Even in your area, there are only so many btu's available for solar hot water in the space heating months, there is not enough collector area, why does everyone think that the cost of hooking up air handlers and slabs etc. is going to be beneficial and cost effective? It is NOT! You end up with an oversized hot water system in July, and not squat for "extra" btu's in the winter. You will never pay for the extra costs it took to do this, piping and controlling these systems are not cost effective on small collector areas.

Dan Foley

Why

Why? Because the client wanted it and was willing to pay for it. -DF

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singh

Great work !

As always, you and your crew do nice work , I'm glad the solar
is working well for you. Are you proactive in seeking the solar work (advertisment,etc) or as add-on option with some of the radiant/HVAC contracts?

Nice schematic also.

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Nron_13

Grundfos

Is that the new grundfos vfd pump you have there we dont have them here yet

Dan Foley

Grundfos

Nron, the Grundfos is a field demo that will be removed and sent back to Grundfos for analysis.

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Dan Foley

Solar

Devan,

Thanks for the nice comments. So far, all of our solar projects have been from current clients asking for it. We have not been proactive in seeking the solar component.

We are currently working on a system to heat an indoor pool. I will post photos of that project as it progresses. -DF

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Paul Pollets

Nice Job!!

Nice project, Dan and crew!!

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scott markle_2

envious

Dan the horizontal Vitosol is a thing of beauty. I'm a huge fan of modern architecture, What a privilege... and solar no less!

How hard does that TT work-what's your heat loss like. Are you happy with the systems performance?

Did you do the insulation work? Is there Pro press under the insulation?

Dan Foley

Paul

Thanks, Paul. We missed you in Chicago. We need to catch up soon over a cognac (or two!). Maybe in Frankfurt? -DF

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Dan Foley

Scott

Hi Scott,

It was a privilege to work on this project as the owner was very easy to work with. The solar has only been fully operational since early January so it is hard to say how much it has contributed to the heat load.

The heat loss of the structure is atrocious due to the single pane glazing , hence the 175 Prestige. It was sized to carry the entire load. Even with the collectors partially shaded after 3pm this time of year, there were several sunny days where the storage tank was over 130*F.

What was most amazing was the Grundfos pump running at 8 to 10 watts when the ambient temps were in the 20's. I never saw it run over 20 watts.

Brian and crew did the insulation. While I believe pro-press would work fine, we used a combination of Caleffi stainless steel piping (inside) and soldered copper piping (outside). I was unable to get a definitive answer from pro-press so we played it safe. -DF

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hot_rod

great looking install

I like the nice insulation job on the piping. R-value, bird proof, and great looking. Is it PVC jacket?

I like the panels on their side like that. A nice low profile.

Amazing how those Alphas can move the "load" with that low power consumption.

hr

klaus

Very Nice!

Very nice job Dan. Of course that's no surprise from you and your crews. I really like the schematic with the detailed sequence of operations, very professional. The outside pictures show a nice sunny day, should be some nice solar gain there. Do you have a means to dump excess heat in the summer months if necessary?

I'm anxiously looking for oppertunities to enter the solar market in our area. I've been reading everything I can find and researching manufacturers. There's a lot of interesting equipment out there.

Keep up the great work! Rich L.

S Ebels_2

That's some sweet work Dan

I don't think I'd want to be around when it comes time to replace that flat roof with all that equipment sitting on it.

Paul Rohrs_4

Excellent job Dan & Crew

What a great project. Dan, I am impressed with the system design and mechanical layout. Although it can be viewed as complex, your clear illustrations, sequence of operation, and wiring schematic break it down into simplified blocks. Great job on the drawing.

Regards,

PR

Dan Foley

Roof

Thanks, Steve. I did suggest to the owner that he should consider replacing the roof before our work was done. He declined, opting for patching instead. All of our equipment is curb mounted which will make the evnetual roof replacement somewhat easier.

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Dan Foley

Rich

Thanks Rich. Like you, I try to learn something new every day. I still have plenty to learn when it comes to solar.

We have a total of 200 gal. storage capacity so we should not have a problem in summer. We used a 50* angle to maximize winter harvesting of solar BTU's while minimizing summer overheating. The flat panels also have an inherent thermal limit. The Caleffi control will also limit the solar tank temperature by running the pump at night to re-radiate back into the night sky if the temperature gets too high.

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Dan Foley

Drawing

Thanks, Paul. I learned a lot from your drawings and incorporated many of your concepts into my drawings. I should also note that the basic mechanical concept came from Siigy and was not my own idea.

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Unknown

that's a nice job dan, for sure. My hatred for two temp systems rears its ugly head again though... That AHU drives me nuts!!! what could have been done to exorcise that demon high temp demand???

Mad Dog_2

Proud of you, Foley..........

You're a blazing ahead with new technology AND making money....you are an ispiration. Mad Dog

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Unknown

ONE WORD

WOW

Dan, nice, clean, efficient, state of the art......

Great Job!

Many more to come!!!

wheels

scott markle_2

Rob,

Two temps doesn't have to be a a demon. Also an AHU can be designed to operate at condensing temperatures. I'm not much into "pumping air" but it seems to me that ECM fans (if equipped with an external interface) could be regulated by difference setpiont controls similar to a Tekmar 157 (if it had a 0-10v output), Such that fan speeds would modulate maintain efficient deltas across the coil.

I'd love to here from someone who has experience with muilti-path mixing valves, Has anyone seen this? I found it in the job pages, I think they are looking for sales reps. This concept also has solar applications.

http://www.baunach-usa.com/downloads/docs/What_is_rendeMix.pdf

Unknown

well looking at this though (and I make no judgement based on this, this is just my own design bias; the AHU might be necessary), I see that AHU as the only thing standing between a primary direct piped, no mixing, no hydro separator system with that boiler. which would, needless to say, be a lot simpler and cheaper without sacrificing anything other than an AHU.

Whether that second time is high or medium doesn't bug me that much: it's that it's present at all and all the design baggage that comes with it. I like single temps... a lot

that's a pretty interesting valve there though..