Braze over solder?

Dennis

Use oxygen, and acetylene, you can pinpoint the heat where you want it. A turbo torch will help you burn the house down, and that would be bad.

roy Goodman

Braze over solder?

we have a steam condensate line installed with 95/5 solder. The Owner is adamant about the joints needing to be 'brazed'. Is it possible to redo these solder joints with brazing, or do the fittings/joints need to be cut out? My colleage seems to think that the joints could simply be brazed, ie, the higher heat would get rid of most of the solder - i have my doubts. Any input would be much appreciated.

Eugene Silberstein 3

Typically

Typically, in order to braze over a soldered joint, the joint should be relatively clean. However, there is a product put out by Harris, that is called Blockade. This stuff is awesome and is a phospherous/copper/silicone compound that will work well over soft-soldered joints.

I have been using it with my students in my HVAC/R classes at the college and truly think that the product is awesome. You do need to heat the pipe to the same cherry red you would have to when using other high temperature filler materials, so be sure to properly protect system components that can get damaged from the excessive heat.

Tom K_3

braze over solder

95/5 has a 430 degree melting point correct, should be fine

bob young

brazing

it can be done by someone who knows how to braze. i have done up to two copper successfully. it is much more difficult than brazing a normal joint.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Yes you can braze over solder. If the tubing and joint are old clean them as much as possible and then braze. Getting the water out so you can get the joint hot enough will be the issue.


Ed

Scott Kneeland

If it gets hot enough to melt 95/5 thats going to be the least of his problems.

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Marty

good luck

Cut it out Actually the 95/5 alone would probably be stronger than one thats brazed over, The brazed over one will possibly just be held by the "cap" around the joint there is no way of telling how well it would flow into the fitting

Larry Weingarten

I've had mixed...

...results with this. Sometimes the very hot solder seems to eat large holes in the copper. These can be brazed up, but are not pleasant. Getting rid of as much solder as possible seems to help.

Yours, Larry

bob young

free piping

the real problem here is not the solder---it is a know -it-all unreasonable homeowner who nobody in their right mind should ever work for. the 95-5 joints would last as long as the house exists. brazed joints are overkill. if you tell him he does not have to pay or give him a deep discount ,watch him agree to leave the job as is. just a typical situation of a jerk looking to get something F.O.C.

hr

Don't braze

it can leave a brittle joint that is not forgiving to expansion and contraction.

I like the Blockade for this also, and you can get it to flow into the joint by heating the whole socket depth. You will know by touching the solder to the back end of the fitting.

Check out the www.jwharris website for go info.

Depending on the size of pipe you are working with you will need a fairly manly tourch. Probably an oxy actylene rig with a rosebud tip.

hot rod

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larry_15

Brazing over coper

Roy:

You will many differant opinions on this site as you can see. Frist, I have worked at doing this and looked into it to see if it should or could be done long ago. Silfos is rated at a 56,000 psi tinsle strengh the 95/5 is closer to 12,000. As it was said in a post before me the main thing to do is clean you old joints. If you only cap the joint from the pipe to over the fitting and it doesn't suck in it will still hold and seal. However heat is a cleaner and by getting hot it will suck into the joint weather others here on this site think it won't. Your biggest problem will be water in the pipe, I have drilled a hole in the pipe to releive my water then just brazed the hole shut after the water is out. Braze joint will last longer by far than any sweat joint. By the way that is how I put all my pressure taps in on copper and all my probes in any more, by brazing in 3/4" fpt adaptor. Likewise, I have done this on 4-1/8" pipe down to 1-1/8" pipe. If we put in a hydronic system that is going to use glycol we braze everything.

Hope this helps,

Larry

hr

Keep in mind when you braze, silver solder, or

even with the lower temperature Blockade you will soften the copper and fitting. Any wrenching that has to be done near this joint will require care as to not oval out or collapse the assembly.

hot rod

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roy Goodman

thanks for the input

Thanks all for the input. i now have some information we can present to the owner and the contractor. Thanks again.

Mad Dog_2

I concur,,,,

as long as they are clean. I have brazed pipe as large as 12" and was taught by Deadmen who routinely brazed 36" in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Silver Brazing is one of the skills I enjoy the most. Only had one leak in my career too! It was in a horrible spot close to the ceiling in a commercial bldg. It was a hospital and had to be back on line, so I got really p.o.'d at myself and got it fixed. I had a "sunburn" and lungs hurt for a few days after that from being in that superheated ceilings...you guys who have done some know what I mean....If I got it the second time, I could've got it the first time, and I never let it happen again. Mad Dog

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