Pros and cons of different types of baseboard radiators?

Ken_40

we start making CIBB OR Runtals that will emit 600 BTU's /L.F., with 180 water temp, I'll pay closer attention.

As soon as the cost per BTU ouput becomes remotely comparable to HWBB, I'll pay even more attention.

The notion of something that looks like a heavily enamled ladder, fallen on its side as being, "pretty," certainly requires no validation as to blindness.

S. Ohio Homeowner

Pros and cons of different types of baseboard radiators?

I am considering installing a hydronic system with baseboard radiators in my house, What are the pros and cans of castiron, steel (e.g., Runtal), and copper-fin, (and any other types I've left out)? I know that copper-fin retains the least heat, and cast-iron the most, so why doesn't everyone use cast iron?

David Sutton_6

Cost !

Cost per ft, copper fin tube is the least cost per ft (may not be so with the huge jump in copper cost)cast iron BB has more residule heat to it,and more btu out put per ft. Fin tube will give you more options and looks, wall panels are a great option as well. is this a new house or a refit?

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Brad White_9

You have the thermal mass thing down...

Here is my take on other aspects:

Cast Iron BB: Cost is the first resistor to most folks. More labor to install, fitting of sections that are fixed in length, so more filler pieces to make up the difference. (With fin tube in a steel enclosure a hack saw and steady hand and an end cap you can cope closely to any feature.)

Best feature of CIBB? Radiant effect plus convection. The best of both worlds.

CIBB is durable. You can run a tricycle into it (or have your kid do it; it looks silly if you do it). Do that with fin-tube and see you at the auto body shop with an insurance adjuster.

End terminations such as valve enclosures can be a bit fussy and installing TRV's can be a challenge. Also, CIBB has to be piped opposite ends. Fin-tube you can supply and return from the same end with the return or a second element in the cover for greater capacity.


Fin-Tube (usually copper tube, aluminum fins in a steel enclosure): I categorize these as convectors. They heat by moving air in, up and out. The surface temperatures are modestly above the ambient so radiant effect is minimal.

Runtal and other panel radiators: I have these. I like them. Radiant and convective. Not as durable as CIBB but behave for crying out loud. Do not play rugby in the house.

They adapt well to TRV's. They make a visual statement for they do climb up the walls a bit, not hug the floor as much. They do come in many styles as you probably know, but the baseboard is your question. Piping is adaptable and moreso on special order; the stock units have to be opposite end I think. Special order units have baffles for same-end connections, bottoms, ends, etc.

My $0.02

Brad

David Sutton_6

Hi Brad

Brad i would like to hook you up to my computer and down load all that great info you got stored in there!!
you are a major asset to the wall !!!
David

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Ken_40

Cast Iron vs. HWBB

Forget cost for a minute. Your awareness of the cast iron staying warm longer, is due to the simple physics of "thermal mass" - which is tempered by that same principal on the beginning of the cycle - as follows:

1) If a thermostat calls for heat, it is because the set-point has been reached. That means the area affected, needs heat. The rapid response of HWBB (yes, it conversely also is quick to cool down) will heat quicker and require less time to satisfy the 'stat, than a higher thermal massed emitter, e.g., cibb or, cirads (or radiant for that matter).

2) When the 'stat becomes satisfied, the HWBB will cool more quickly than cibb, or cirads; thereby more closely matching the 'stat dynamics/sensitivity - and presumably, the comfort and overall efficiency of the system.

3) The "flywheel" effect of large mass radiation designs in most cases is to be avoided as a practical matter. The only case against radiant heating, is for that very reason. Day/night setback, a known and demonstrated efficiency/energy principal, is lost by most radiant designs.

4) The better designs seem to utilize combinations of radiant and balanced "fast-response" designs to achieve phenominal comfort and awesome economy of operation.

Hope that helps. The old saw, "there is no such thing as free lunch," holds true for the cibb vs hwbb debate. Based on the logic above, there is no real debate anyhow. If want ultimate comfort and ultimate economy of operation, combined systems seem to be the only answer. The bonus is, there is little added cost to get the best of both worlds!

Unknown

hey Brad...

Hey Brad, this is not moo cow here, u can runs return pipe on cast iron baseboard radatiors. I've done it all the time on reofit system in old home.... Also, I've done supply and return in one opening of radiator. However, as everyone stated, cast iron the way to go for comfort level..

John Ketterman

I would question the choice of baseboard (whether cast iron or copper).

Runtal panel rads (already recommended above) are less than 2" thick, they look good, and they allow you to put in lots of radiation. This means you can heat the room with cooler water, which means increased comfort. And if you get a condensing boiler, cooler water is good for that as well.

John Ketterman

Low-mass radiation results in more cycles, as you described. If you like forced-air heat, you'll like this. High-mass radiation combined with reset gives very even heating. The problem is that many older homes have "bang bang" heating combined with high-mass radiation and these do not go well together because of overshoot.

Unknown

TRV.

low cost zoning, room by room, constant circ. No thermostatic baseboard can touch that.

What more could anyone want (other than, of course, radiant)?

A good thermostat with PWM action also nixes the issues of lead/lag.

Perry_2

You can also heat with Cast Iron Basebord and cooler water

Cast Iron baseboard matched with a modulating condensing boiler that has a good setback curve (based on outdoor temperature) can work very well.

In the end, its a matter of personal preference: Cast Iron baseboard or Runtal panel radiators. What appeals to you. Do you like to put a chair up against the wall, etc. Many minor pro's and con's of either - depending on your personal preference.

I do not like copper finned baseboard. I've lived with it and it's not very sighly once its banged up.

I currently have Cast Iron baseboard.

Perry

Perry

Unknown

Runtal UF-2, their entry level BB, 600 BTUs/sq ft @ 180 deg WT.

UF-3 and UF-4, even more.

Certainly more expensive than regular BB, but the UF-3 and UF-4 in particular open up better low temp possibilities, and I have a sneaking suspicion that they hold their performance at lower temps more linearly than convective BB due to the radiation component of their output.

Who's heating with 180 anymore anyway?

I can't fault you for the aesthetics though, certainly a matter of taste and decor there. Radiant ceiling is usually a cheaper and better low temp choice in most cases.

Brad White_9

Did I say...

you were Moo Cow? Never would have occurred to me...

So I stand corrected on that point. I had a plumber tell me that the baseboard (Crane I believe but to a Burnham pattern) was one big open passage within, not a tube high and tube low.


Learn new things every day here. Maybe someone else can corroborate?

John Ketterman

>You can also heat with Cast Iron Basebord and cooler water

Yes, of course. My point was that panel rads allow you to put in lots of excess radiation, while BB is limited by the perimeter of the room minus doors, built-in furniture/cabinets, etc.