noise problem with tubing stapled to underside of subfloor

Dave the plumber

Have any of you ever experienced problems with noise from stapling radiant tubing below sub flooring? Have you had problems with tubing expanding and contracting in the staples causing noise?

Jerry_15

You betcha - I warn customers big time about this before commiting to the job. It's brutal on first start-up, subsides in time as the tubing takes a set, never goes away completely. If you're going through holes at end of joists a liberal spraying of silicon works wonders (also good on baseboards etc), but a good run at high heat is the best medecine. Good luck.

Nron_13

noise

change the system to have constant circulation and use the zone valve as an injection mixing device this will help get rid of expantion noises , look at an indoor out door control as well to help keep water temps down as low as possible

Boilerpro_5

Or Use Watts ONix tubing

Silent in operation, very easy to install, and much better output than straight staple up, which I don't see used anymore. Plates or suspended tube for Pex is the way to go, but you will still get some noise from the pex moving through holes in joists or the plates making some noise, maybe.

Boilerpro

Jerry_15

All great right on advice, but acceptable noise is subjective, and wicked hard to negotiate after the fact. Should you make a change will it be enough? Will they be happy, and who will pay? Good luck.

Don't forget the silicon spray!!!! Try a couple cans first.

hr

Be more specfic

Do you mean pex tube stapled directly to the bottom of a subfloor. I'm not sure any manufacture approves this method with metal staples tightly fastened against the pex tube. Pex tube moves a bit sometimes quite a bit, when the temperature swings.

I suspect you will see wear marks and quit possibly leaks in a few years time, if wire gun staples were used.

Suspended tube is another method altogether. It generally has clamps that allow the tubing to move and slide without causing noise or wear points.

All thngs considered the transfer plate makes the most sense for the very best transfer (conduction) and the ability to run at the lowest supply temperatures. Extruded plates, properly installed should provide a very nice consistent floor temperature usually within condensing boiler temperature sweet spots

hot rod

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Unknown

staple up

I just got back from one of the heating job that I've been doing... This job have combo of in slab heat and later stapled up floor heat with plates... I asked her about any noise problems with the staple up.. She said only in the first year ( now 5th yrs) and very slight that she doesn't pay attenion to it.. But nothing like the forced air systems in the house that drives her nuts... Which is why the new addition now have more in slab heating with cibb for supplement heat...

Unknown

extruded plates, mod/con boiler, they will never ever know if it's running except by floor temp. silence from a boiler sure is golden

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Radiant floor heat should be ABSOLUTELY silent.

Even lightly informed consumers EXPECT this. If you must use high temperature bare tube staple-up, the rubber-like Onyx tube has the best chance of meeting consumer expectation.

Jerry_15

So there you go. It starts up noisy; subsides over time. The key is to inform the owner and get them to acknowledge, in writing. Noise is not negotiable on the backside(or ever really). I use the foil bubble pressed tight instead of u channels. A tip here is never allow electric staplers on the job. They go off at odd moments, and some guys think they are being paid by the staple.

Jerry_15

Is the onix tube O2 tight? Someone else tried the garden hose approach some years ago but I don't think it worked out.

Boilerpro_5

Yes, it is O2 tight

It has an aluminum layer in it. Most early tubing did not have O2 barriers, Pex or otherwise.

Boilerpro

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Jerry_15

Cool - I'll check it out.

bill clinton_3

staple up noise

I agree with Bob Rohr: tube should never be installed hanging from a staple. We do lots of "suspended tube" systems using full circle plastic clamps. We space them a bit far apart (approx 20-24") so there is some room for the tube to sag with temperature change induced expansion--this so the expansion doesn't cause the tube to push the extra length down the line and drag it back when cooling.

The full circle clamps are attached to the side of the joists and create about 1/4" standoff so the moving tube doesn't press against the joist. For 1/2" tube, we generally use 3/4" clamps so there is no pressure on the tube and it can move freely.

EVERY time tube goes through a hole in the wood, it gets a plastic sleeve/isolator. Like the clamps, we oversize the isolator so the tube can move freely.

EVERY time the tube crosses itself as it usually does at one end of a joist bay, we install a piece of foam insulation at the contact point.

We use barrier tube which has a "tacky" surface and is pretty unforgiving in the tick-tick department. Non barrier is more foregiving. Pex Aluminum Pex expands less and doesn't have that tacky surface.

Mr. Pex systems now has a very thin layer of polyethylene applied over the oxygen barrier to give tick-tick characteristics of non-barrier.

Whatever system you use, be it plates or suspended tube, you are going to have to pay attention to detail if you want it quiet.

Bill