In Harms way (GrandPAH)

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

does it all & it was just one guy. The other homes in the neighborhoods that got treated to his HVAC 'skills' each had to be redone so they could cool off in hot weather.

There's a lynch mob of angry homeowners who'd just love for him to come back from Florida.

The builder went bankrupt a few years ago. Nice guy (seriously), but he always sought out the low bidders. It was a race to the bottom. Huge homes that look like a million bucks, but......

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

Hydronic Mayhem

What happens when unsuspecting customers and builders get flim-flamed by hydronic pretenders.

All PEX you see is potable. AKA: non-barrier. The oxygen corrosion plugged the Munch HX & has reduced flow (after purging the sludge from the HX) below acceptable rates.

No air eliminators.

The 'indirects', and I use that term loosely, are a treat for the eye! Nice spot for the T&P vlvs. Note to building & mechanical inspectors: The T&P should be a no-brainer to catch & same for branded potable PEX in a hydronics system.

This not be cheap!

BTW - those "bronze" fittings & nipples you see? They're painted ladies, floozies, cheap dates - they are galvanized! No doubt the continuity of keeping up with using potable PEX required the use of potable steel too!

Derheatmeister

No Guidelines

Dave. yes i see this all of the time and it shall be against code! But code officials look away or do not know what to look for.

Can't we have our own "DIN" for this ?

Is it time to reinvent the wheel? what do them Germans know about this? let's just learn it the hard way!

Home Depot Employee

My first impression with the two types of PEX that I see that is a installer followed the rough.

How many times have we seen a builder lay the pipe and a heating guy follow?

Except in this case did the builder use barrier and the "Heating guy", plumber use potable PEX?

Mark Eatherton

Holy Cow Batman....

What a freakin' mess. Mind if I hijack those pictures for my presentation to the building officials out in Joisey next month?

There ought to be a law....

You should turn this into a quiz. How many things do YOU see wrong in these pictures?

Nice catch Dave.

ME

Timco

In the 'beat the boiler up' pic, is that a float type vent in the laars? If so, they recommend replacing that with a coin vent. I have seen a few look like that because of the auto vent failing. Nice catch, bad job...

Tim

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

hack

at will. I have more & will take more if we get the nod to affect corrections. The original 'installer' fled to Florida. Other mech contractors were called and gave up. We can cure all the ills if the pocket books can take the hit.

I lost count quickly. There so many mistakes it's virtually impossible to take the time to list them all.

But - for your inspector crowd, I'd suggest they learn to look for some of the basics: tube labeling; T&P location - maybe they don't know about the probe?; venting - both boilers are experiencing difficulty breathing properly - IT'S IN THE DAMN BOOK! TAKES ABOUT TEN SECONDS TO CATCH THE ERRORS; that deep seal trap should send out a signal - especially since it's mini-me is just upstream - never double-trap; the T&P on the single tank is piped to a 1.5" safe waste and extends deeply into the waste line & below its flood-level-rim & get this - that 1.5" is then reduced at the floor to 3/4" PVC and run a long ways with no fall; the A/C trap (a running P) is installed upsede-down on unit #1 and on unit #2, the line running from the right-side up running P-trap runs uphill to double-trap the condensate(G); no air scoops or spiro-vents on any of these installs?!?; and a host of other things that get a bit more esoteric and beyond most inspector's training. But, the list grows long(G).

The T&P's should be a huge red flag and part of inspector training on day one.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

yup

poor thing's been short-cycled to its death. It's right under the master bed too & the noise has been an issue from day-one. Unheated space to boot. Not even the R-30 can squelch the transfer of noise to interrupt sleep.

The Munch was plugged up with oxy sludge.

The other Munch (not pictured) we resusitated a few months ago & put back in service, but that homeowner is in the midst of a nasty divorce & has no money to spend correcting the piping/pumping/control issues. She knows it can't survive indefinately as it is & that it's on borrowed time. Busted boilers - broken dreams.

Charlie from wmass

The first thing I thought of was those dancing water shows they have when I say pic # 1. I have a customer who used none oxyegewn barrier tubing to connect his boiler to the heatexchanger supplier with his outdoor wood furnance. The manufacturer told him he did not need the more costly stuff as they both had the same temp and pressure ratings. When folks call a water heating unit a furnace I have to wonder what else they do not know. Guess if they did it right it would mean less work for those who know how to do it right.

ScottMP

Dave

Does the over flow on the Munchkin really go out the front like that ?? No cover for the boiler ?? Nice make up air !!

Where to start.

Scott

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don_185

I like

I like the statement that Mr Yates used..in the race to the bottom.

The builder would say do not blame me I'm trying to build homes that people can afford.

Well.from the pics.. it seem like he failed.

I say, the builder should be the first to get a short rope.

Wayco Wayne_2

Wow!

PRESCRIPTION: Sawsall surgery, then start over. WW

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Paul Pollets

Dave...

I presume this is an apt. building? If not, maybe you could install some more pumps.:) Looks like some of the jobs I see in Seattle.

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Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

one

large home that's micro-zoned. Lots of passrasitic energy lost & the electric bill was one of the 'ouch' points the HO brought up.

S Ebels_2

Que up Star Trek Theme song........

To boldly go where no man has gone before. ........Well, at least no man that knew what he was doing. I walked away from one like that this past summer. The homeowner had done the in slab pex himself with the help of Home Depot's "experts" and had non barrier tube in the cement. I told him the system would require the use of a heat exchanger to protect the boiler and he told me I was full of s**t. That was my clue to leave.

Have fun Dave. Too bad scrap prices are down right now cause there's a lot of it there.

mtfallsmikey

The builder

Really meant.."I build homes that I can make the maximum profit on"....