system 2000 combustion chamber

Hollis

Arrgh just got a bill for 600+ for replacing a combustion chamber in a Kinetics system. This is the 3rd one in 12 years. Shouldn't they last a lot longer than that? It doesn't seem to be over fired and is serviced every year.
The oil company responded to a no heat call from a rental we have. I'm a little ticked that they never called to get clearance to do this. Seems like with a big deal wouldn't they call?

Rocky_3

We have installed hundreds of EK boilers

and I think we have only replaced one combustion chamber. Perhaps during the servicing it is being damaged with a boiler brush or something? Three in 12 years sounds a bit much. Is the service company using draft and combustion instruments to test the equipment after servicing?

Rocky

Norm Harvey

I have only ever replaced some insulation boards in older units, and never a combustion chamber.

It sounds fishy to me. I would question your service company about the matter

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Leo_23

Pac Man

I have seen the piece that looks like and is referred to as the Pac Man replaced only. As far as doing it without authorization that is how you and the company have worked any arrangements. Where I work a regular customer may often give a blanket fix whats wrong while others want a phone call first. As is often saide on this site "it depends".

Leo

Charlie from wmass

Easy answer is change the boiler. I advise that in most cases it behooves one to not use the fuel supplier for service. There are exceptions but I see less issues with well trained private techs then fuel supply techs. Totally bias view point is admitted.I am also not a fan of the system 2000 boilers.

steve_29

3 in 12 years is definitely a problem , my guess is that it's not a chamber problem but a service personel one.

Any chamber will deteriorate over time including ones in Weil McLains, Peerless, Burnhams, etc.

They all need to be replaced from time to time.

I can't agree with you Charlie... I'd rather service something correctly, than just replace a homeowners boiler.

I'm less of a fan of incompetent service personel.

Charlie from wmass

SW I simply do not like any system that is so closed to sharing information on a product. Just my personal quirk against secret societies. I am also less than impressed with this boiler that seems more prone to "monkey" damage. Unfortunately I live where monkeys run loose every day and I need to install systems that can survive their meddling with minimal damage. I am also of the school who expects 20 to 30 years from a boiler.

steve_29

Charlie, what secret society are you talking about ... Energy Kinetics holds seminars on a routine basis through out the region.

I'd bet they've love to have you attend one... and I'd even bet you'd learn a few things.

Find one close to home and attend...
http://www.energykinetics.com/seminarSchedule.shtml

Hank_5

I've found in the past that EK is anything but closed as far as getting info about their system. Their tech manual is one of the best in the business, I/O manuals are very complete, if you need help with a problem their techs are always ready with an answer. They have seminars throughout most of the area they sell in and they have field support. Those guys want you to understand the system so you don't screw it up.

If monkeys can't work on something like that what are they going to do with mod/cons or similar? Are we, as a nation, going to keep on choosing equipment that's monkey proof rather than efficient?

I believe my own System 2K will last 25-30 years. If I didn't I would have installed something else. Any boiler, no matter how well it's built, is going to die an early death if it's neglected or trashed.

Norm Harvey

Hey Charlie, Secret societies built this country! Literally! ...But now all they do is sit around their antiquated lodges drinking to get some respite from the wife with no real motivation other than to have their kids hold the annual fund raising car wash.

Oh how the mighty have fallen. It's sad really.

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Ken Field

20 years and counting

The first EK boiler I ever installed was in 1988 and it is still chugging right along. Same combustion chamber, possibly needed a pac-man over the years but nothing else. It's a sure bet that it is a setup issue. (If adding air cleans up a fire than tons of it would be even better). I would suggest finding a service company who gets training and follows the setup routine that keeps those boilers trouble-free.

Ken Field

Great idea

Charlie, you nailed it. It saves a trip to the home too. Just tell everyone who calls in with no heat that they need a boiler. Then get them setup with a block of cast iron that will chug along like a model-T. That's progress.

bob young

tried & true is sometimes ok

billtwocase

system 2000

I've been installing these boilers since 1984, and have their first model year still running in a custtomer's house. Great unit, great support, news letters for any issues out there, but the chamber, never cared for, but if you know how to work carefully, no problem. If the pork chop falls from it's position, that's the only support for the chamber. It will break, and if the back panel gets over tightened during cleaning, that will also live a short life. I started using these years ago to replace rotary boilers out there because they are so damn quiet. Can't beat that. peace

Steven Eayrs

around 350 EK's installed......

since around 1990. I believe we have replaced one combustion chamber. Had one bad (leaking) boiler and EK was right on top of it, and had me another one right away, and paid to change it out.
Whats so secret about it? Its different, but most good ideas are. That is if they stand out above the crowd. As far as I know every one of the boilers we installed is still in service today.
Check it out Charlie. Maybe you think its an exclusive club, because you've never looked close enough to find out different?

Erich_3

Ask For The Old Part

Tell your oil company that you want to see the old part. Make it clear that they need permission to replace any part that is not covered in your oil contract and you want the old parts with the box that the new parts came in. Call up Energy Kinetics and ask for the name of a trained service company in your area. Let them inspect that boiler and see if the combustion chamber was actually replaced.

mark ransley

Contact EK and trust them to help not who you have now.
I used to have a tech that was a replacer of parts for profit, about 700$ a years worth, now its 700$ every 5-10 yrs or when needed. Ek should help and maybe visit your unit.

heatboy_18

Also 20 years........

...... with the first EK I installed and still has original chamber. I installed quite a few in the early 90's and while I don't install that brand any longer, I still do service on lots of them. With a modicum of care, a chamber should last many years on this particular boiler.

Sissy

I am an under-trained slightly inept technician who works at a small oil company. I have serviced several EK's, I like them, I also have serviced several 3 pass boilers, buderus, bianchi, etc. I like these too, but I don't understand the "bashing" of pin style boilers, I have seen the charts and appreciate the engineering but its funny that in similar houses with these completely modern appliances the oil usage is practically the same as in a pin style boiler. I know every little bit counts but when it takes more than the lifespan of the average boiler to see the difference in price is it worth it?

Ken Field

Peckham don't be too hard on yourself

Realizing that you lack some training and fine tuning skills is a MAJOR step toward becoming a great technician. It is the '30 years and still doing it the same way because I know everything' techs who have outlived their usefulness in my opinion. Keep your eyes and ears open and hang here a while and you will be on top of your game in no time. Never hesitate to ask a question (here or anywhere).
Where pin boilers get on my nerves is: 1. when they have domestic coils in them. That will cost you at least an extra 100 gallons of oil in the non-heating months, and 2. When they are not cleaned thoroughly and set up properly they are inefficient. The difference in price is worth it if they provide domestic hot water and are installed to maximize energy in the off season.

Charlie from wmass

Ok my last comment on this thread is this I will never be convinced a sheet of tin is a boiler. I am constantly trying to learn new systems and controls I also feel engineering is needed but no matter how you slice it I feel if the controls for these boilers were placed on better blocks the savings in fuel would be that much better. Perhaps it was the installers they had in the 80's and 90's around here. Perhaps it is the harsh water conditions or the lack of care the boilers received before I was called in. I simply feel I have many other options of boilers to offer so I will continue being a dinosaur and install cast iron or stainless steel boilers as the situation calls for. If you want to take another shot at this dinosaur I also do not install CSST as I see it as not good for my customers best interest.

tommyoil

Part of the reason....

I dont stick my nose in here too much any more is guys like this. Jim at EK is one of the most stand up guys I have ever met in this business. He is never short on answers when I have questions. He is never short for time when I need it from him. His efforts to clarify any questions posed to him fell on deaf ears in this instance. His commentary was met with sarcasm and a disrespectful tone which goes beyond anything he, as a respected contributor to the wall, should have to endure (Yet Gentleman Jim maintained his composure). I consider those guys at EK friends both on a personal and professional level. Whether you like their product or not, when you come to this or any forum with whatever twisted agenda you have and bash whoever is in the crosshairs ad nauseum, YOUR unprofessional, agenda laden, manner comes shining through. It becomes crystal clear to the rest of us that your commentary holds no weight whatsoever despite what you may think of yourself or your babbling rants. This used to be a fun place to come and learn among friends. When I sit here and watch my friends get bashed in such a condescending manner, it takes the wind right out of my sails. Especially when it comes from cowards hiding behind phony names and addresses. It must be a real burden to go through life with no balls. Hang in there Jim. I for one pay close attention to your posts and appreciate all the time you take to offer your insight to us. I use and endorse your product and have few service issues that aren't handled at a regular maintenance. Forget Jim Carrey.....Mo,Larry or Curley would be more appropriate.