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Onyx radiant tubing

Derheatmeister
Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,514
Yes. Have seen it,and everytime i talk about it, it seems like i am the only one,and am seeing Ghost.

Two more other local guys seen this as well or are admitting to have seen this!

Let me guess "Look ma no Plates"!

What temps are you running? PH at?


In my opinion it is a Rubber hose that deteriorates!

Maybe time for a "Strainer" and a little Chemical rescue?

Comments

  • markotah
    markotah Member Posts: 36
    heatway onyx radiant tubing?????

    About 4 years ago I installed onyx piping as a staple up job for a friend for floor warming. The system had worked great until this year. The problem was low flow. It seems like the flow check and posssibly the checks in the mixing valve locked up over the summer. When I cleaned the checks and purged the system I ended up with black slimy residue in the bottom of the bucket. I think this is what gave me the problem. There is no glycol in the system. Has anyone else had this experience?
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Only....

    the Heatmeister :-)

    Richard has been harping on them about this issue for EVER, to no avail. I think he now just outright condemns the system and replaces it with conventional PEX.

    If you ask the makers, they will tell you that they've never seen it before ;-(

    It is a known fact that I am not a big fan of rubber (I don't care WHAT the chemical composition is, if it walks like a hose, runs like a hose and smells like a hose, it's a hose, and if it smells like rubber, it's a rubber hose) hose.

    I have my theories as to how the oxygen is getting through the hose and causing the gunk to form. Let's just say it's making an end run around the mylar o2 barrier.

    Richard can tell you more about his experiences, if he wishes...

    EDIT: Please note the time stamps on the posts. We probably started our response at the same time, but Richard is a man of fewer words, so he posted first. As I said, only Richard (and now a few others) have witnessed this problem, plus you, makes four...

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • markotah
    markotah Member Posts: 36
    Look Ma, no Plates !!

    Temps are 125* - 130* abosolute max. I never seen this in my radiator in my truck. PH is something I will have to check.
  • markotah
    markotah Member Posts: 36
    onyx

    I know there are class action suits on the entran but I've seen nothing on onyx. Anything else you can add?
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Nothing at this time...

    but I do know of a very sharp legal beagle who is keeping an eye on it.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,314


    I do have one customer a former engineer for a former local boiler manufacturer who has onyx he installed himself to save money. He did not double back along the exterior walls and was borderline on all loop lengthes. He needs to run 160 plus to keep the house warm so I hope he is watching this.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating


  • we've seen the sludge up here in maine too.

    I thought the stuff had an aluminum core though, which would be a perfect o2 barrier. Do they make onyx without an AL core?

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,804
    a few

    systems in my area have ongoing sludging problems. They have been flushed, Rhomar cleaned, filled with DI water, it still re-occurs.

    I sent a sample to a lab a few years back and got 3 pages of technical jargon no one could understand. Maybe I need to send it to Perry for an opinion :)

    Makes me wonder how well rubber will perform when connected to evac tube array under stagnation temperatures in the 400F plus range?

    hr
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,804
    dp

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Mike C._4
    Mike C._4 Member Posts: 56
    onyx tubing for solar

    I have heard onyx being suggested for solar thermal systems due to its high temperature rating with Watts being aware of it. Makes me wonder.

    Mike
  • In Ohio too!

    I've got a snow melt system in only it's second year of operation and it is gunked up as well. This could be a catastrastroke if a solution isn't found soon.
  • tom_49
    tom_49 Member Posts: 269


    we are doing a house for a guy who runs a local supply house (not much radiant experience).

    The watts rep is selling him on the onyx, I suggested over floor panels. " the cost is a lot more for climate panels and the design temps are close".. so I was told.

    Should I walk away from this one?



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  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,514
    Contact them!

    Everyone that is seeing these "Problems" shall contact Watts Radiant the maker of Entran...oh no i meant the new and improved Onyx, In writing! Not verbal!
    About what they are seeing out in the field ....

    Some still think it is the best thing since Sliced Bread!
    It is so easy to install....

    I can only imagine where this is going and i am so greatfull that i was thought by Stubborn Germans that you shall not take "Shortcuts"

    I am glad i did not start this post this time!
  • Mark Custis
    Mark Custis Member Posts: 539
    Richard

    what is wrong with being stubborn or German?
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,514
    Stubborn

    Nothing, and all my customers think so too, my guy's get used to it and know what i want.

    Some call me the "Heat Nazi" when i get my panties in a Bunshkin or I've got the "Boiler whisperer" when i am relaxed.

    Das ist alles gut.

    Listen to me now! believe me later!.. HA Ha
  • Mark Custis
    Mark Custis Member Posts: 539
    Relax

    My grandpah drove U-boats for the Kizer.

    Hey Dave what is up with the AZ solar jobs?
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    I wouldn't do it....

    I've seen literally MILES of defective Entran II hose in the field, and those systems operated at an elevated temperature failed much faster than those operated at lower temperatures.

    YOu don't want to go there...

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,804
    different warranty for solar and heating

    Onix for heating and snowmelting application, the warranty indicates
    "systems that will not normally operate at temperatures exceeding 180F"

    For solar thermal
    "in a system that will not normally operate at temperatures exceeding 210F, with intermittent exposure to 375F."

    I wonder why the 30 degree difference?

    The info at the Onix site indicates Onix is crosslinked and vucalnized in a 325F steam bath. I question what happens to the product at the 5 hour at 375F allowance.

    We don't need another entran 2 debacle in the solar thermal market :)

    A product should be confirmed to work at the expected, and acknowledged temperatures commonly found in solar systems flowing and stagnating.

    There are many conditions under which a thermal solar system stagnates. Power outage, failed control, sensor, wiring, or pump, air locked, family vacations, or when the tank reached setpoint.

    Even with overheat protection means in the new solar controllers, that activation starts when the panel reaches 250F, already above the accepted temperature for Onix?

    Sitting in on various evacuated tube sales seminars, I'm hearing the potential for much higher operating temperatures than 210F. Especially with the absorbation chiller/ solar crowd.

    Thoughts, comments?

    hr
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Sounds eerily like E2....

    NIMBY...

    I know Richard has some of it that sounds like Rice Crispy's when moved. Makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck thinking about it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I love the Chiles bro's for their efforts in moving the radaint floor industry forward, I just wish that they would have chosen another material for distribution.


    ME
  • joel_19
    joel_19 Member Posts: 931
    onix

    We have seen it got onix in a house that is very rusty/crudy /slimy when purged . Not installed by us and never will be. Heard 18 years ago the Germans had tried it 20years before that and it didn't work for them. That was good enough for me,no thanx.

    Onix on solar? i believe the correct spelling of Onix in that application would be l-a-w-s-u-i-t. Copper will stay together so why skimp? the pipes the cheapest part anyhow.
  • bwa
    bwa Member Posts: 4
    Entran Onix

    Yes, To respond to your questions about Onix I have ruined two boilers and a pump with the black slime that comes out of it and also I now have a water leak under the tiles in my floor. The room never gets warm! Entran II Claim is not covering this damage. What can we do about it?

This discussion has been closed.