Legionnaires' bug at hospital

Baltimore/Maine Doug_5

Going to the hospital can be a health hazard. At St. Joseph Hospital in Baltimore a warning was issued to not take showers or baths, wash hands or drink the water. Elsewhere in the paper was the recommendation to turn down the temp on the water heater.

So put off your heart repairs.

Steamhead (in transit)

No excuse for this

they should shut down until the water is safe. Period.

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bb_11

I agree..

Especially since it is so close to all of us.

However, I'm sure it's in more places than we can imagine.

Especially since BGE says to set your heating to 120F.

bb

Mark Eatherton

Did anyone see Bill Gates mosquitoes in a jar deal....

"Malaria is spread by mosquitoes," Gates said while opening a jar onstage at the Technology, Entertainment, Design Conference — a gathering known to attract technology kings, politicians, and Hollywood stars.

"I brought some. Here I'll let them roam around. There is no reason only poor people should be infected."

I guarantee you Mr Gates got and held their attention...

I am scheduled to speak/teach to a group of students on April 1st, April Fools Day. I thinking along the lines of opening a Ball jar of tap water, then blowing across the top of it, state "Legionaires disease is spread by water,
I brought some here for all of you. Why should just the infirm be exposed to this deadly disease..."

I will then go on to explain that the bacteria is omnipresent, and that we are fighting an uphill battle fueled by ignorant utility companies in their effort to conserve fuel. I will then go on and explain Dave Yates' findings regarding keeping water heaters hot enough to minimize bacterial growth.

WHat do you think? Will it get their attention? I think it will...

Education is the key. ANd this is no April Fools joke...

ME

Steamhead (in transit)

Go for it!

it would certainly get their attention.

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bb_11

I ran into a gentleman at church this morning that has a friend that has just recovered from LD. She was diagnosed in Dec., and is now back to normal.

I asked if they knew the source, but they did not. I asked if the person had been in the hospital noted above, but she had not.

At least she is better now.

Somehow I think that LD is more common than we think. It's just not diagnosed as LD. Don't know what it will take to get the utilities to stop promoting 120F on DHW.

bb

[Deleted User]

Most common misdiagnosed disease in the WORLD!!!

Typically found to be "bacterial pneumonia".

10% kill rate.

People are typically given broad spectrum antibiotics to cure them without finding out what it was that was bugging them...

A random sample blood test found that 99% of the people tested had been exposed to the bacteria responsible for LD. Probably ingested it while drinking the water...

And our code officials are living in denial, and I'm not talking about the big river, although I am certain the bacteria survives there too...

It's a matter of bacteria elevation, and immune system depression, and when the conditions get just right, WHAM, it's got you. And it can kill you if you go undiagnosed.

Just like carbon monoxide poisonings, I think this disease is totally preventable.

It's all about education. And it starts with maintaining storage tank temps between 130 and 140, AND making sure that there is anti scald mixing devices on line. Is this going to completely cure all possible contractions? No, but it's certainly going to put a major dent in the devastation it can wreak.

ME

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_11

Amen to that!

Common sense. See a problem - see the best most obvious solution - see a larger problem - codes held hostage.

Have your students study the history of pandemics. Cholera, typhoid, etc... Then have them trace the origins of each of the pandemic break-outs. A single pin on a global map can be used once they've done their homework.

Study the evolution of plumbing codes and why they arose. What was the need? Was it compelling? Was it life and death? Then study what happened over time and human nature's tendancy to ignore history until doomed to repeat its mistakes.

The cold hard truth is that so long as any change to existing codes causes an increase in the cost to construct a building, the codes will be held hostage by the single largest most powerful lobby group we have in the USA.

The codes were founded on the noblest of ideals - to protect the health of the nation's inhabitants. It's lost that focus and now is designed as a tool to drive revenues - nothing more - nothing less. Were it focused on preserving and enhancing health, then this issue would have received the attention it's due (seriously past-due) and rules governing how we install, store and distribute potable hot water would have changed - years ago.

bb_11

check this out

Steamy:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-md.stjoseph14mar14,0,3234422.story

article in The Sun on Sat. It appears the hospital has some other issues to cause a federal investigation.

bb

GMcD

Codes and Education

I just did a quick check of the Building Codes on a Google search, and as far as I can make out, there is no maximum "wait time" for hot water to appear at the faucet/shower/outlet other than for some Hospital specialties. So, couple that with all the low flow fixture installations in the last decade, and the fact that domestic hot water recirc/heat maintenance systems are designed based on "nominal good practice", it means that there are a heck of a lot of 120F DHW systems with low flow fixtures that are allowing even more semi-stagnant cool DHW to sit in the pipe branches to low flow faucets and shower supplies, that people will run until they get warmish water at the outlet. Solution is easy-Code must stipulate a maximum wait time for getting hot water to the fixture, and to minimize the amount of non-recirculated/ non-heat traced branch pipe to the outlets.

I'm still battling Code Officials up here in the great white north that insist on full flow "fixture unit" sizing (based on 1947 Hunter curves for full flow fixtures) to be used for pipe and drain sizing, even though the same Building Codes mandate low flow fixtures everywhere in the Province....please explain the logic....Oh, yeah, the Building Code wasn't meant to be logically applied.....

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

and yet.......................................

codes call for mandatory recirc if the potable hot water exceeds 100'. So, I have to ask, why do open cross-connected potable/hydronic systems with hundreds, if not thousands, of feet of potable combined-use tubing systems get a pass on that requirement???

ME, I'd love nothing more than to join up with you for that class.

Steamhead (in transit)

Thanks, bb

seems we'd better stay away from that hospital.

I no longer subscribe to The Sun, since the rather poor writing makes it painful to read.

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bb_11

Me too...

I canceled The Sun as well. Could not take their writing as well. Plus they have cut back, and got rid of a few sections.

I only found it from the web. I checked to read the article and found out about the investigation.

bb

Baltimore/Maine Doug_5

I still get the Sun

to keep up with the comics and grocery coupons. Sad that the paper has come to that.

The really bad thing is that we have lost a watch over the city and state governments. The Sun was the last finder of shady deals, greed, idiots in residence etc.. We can expect corruption to increase in many areas.

Here is a picture of Steamhead's turf.

bb_11

The Internet

has been their downfall, as well as 24 hour news networks. It's a shame there is no good paper in Baltimore anymore.

Even the Examiner has closed shop since they could not make money.

Maybe if they got back to good unbiased journalism they would grow their business. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

bb

Larry Weingarten

Mark, ...

... I'd add to the bottle of water, the story of your own fight with the bug and what that was like. Nothing like the truth, standing right in front of you to drive a message home.

Yours, Larry