Customers Heating Bill Went Up After Mod/Con Install

Charlie from wmass

I had one where the new boiler that was not working was 120k btu's and the house never got above 50 F if it was below 30 outside and several rooms never hit 40 F. I did the heat load as per the actual windows and walls in the home and used -10 for design temp and came to 360K btu's for the home. Yes it was a big rambling house from the 1700 and 1800's. With the new boilers and an increase in their therms rate they spent 10 percent more per month on their gas bill than before the new boilers. The difference was they did not need to wear a jacket and mittens to sit and open their mail.

Magnehelic

Heating Bills Went UP after Mod/Con Install

Hi Guys,

Two Winters in a row now that I have customers where we replaced their 25-50 year old boilers with Mod/Con, and they call back in January saying "I didn't save that much" or "my bill went UP slightly" Thout I'd post here to see what you do if this happens, and tell you what I do.

Customer one calls in Jan, says "heating bills went up......therm usage down.....what's wrong?" Ha Ha!!! "Nothing!!" I say. She was one customer that I refused to promise large savings to, because her system was actually pretty damn efficient. 90 year old gravity system.....pipes and boiler VERY well insulated, thermopile, so absolutely no electricity needed. We installed a 007 as a "system" pump, and a upg26 that came with the Knight as the "boiler" pump, and when we were done, she had an entire east end of the house that suddenly had heat, that had never had anything but 4 cold radiators since they had moved in (4 years ago). Anyway, I downloaded the heating degree day history for NOAA for Sept thru Dec 2007, and then the same for 2008, and was able to demonstrate 143 more hdd's to her for that time period (approx 4.5% higher) and then downloaded the natural gas (and electricity) rate history, and was able to show her that NG went up $0.03/therm (electricity didn't go up til this month....but as I said, her old system didn't use any). She also with her old system had set back the thermostat at night, but when she called me, she told me that she hadn't been doing that, and asked if it was better to manualy do it at the stat (wanted to keep the T87F cuz it went with the decor) or to program it into the boiler. I sent someone out to explain this all to her and she's happy. Let's recap
1) Old system no pumps, no electricity
2) Old system east side of house no heat
3) Old system manually set back at night

1) New System 2 mini pumps
2) New System add 20% to heat load for room that is now heating
3) New system add 143 HDD's
4) New system no setback (til this week)
5) Customer states "less therms....more$
6) Nat Gas goes up 3 cents/therm

Ok.....long enough post, I'll debate whether to post on customer number tow or not.

Whaddaya think guys?

Don

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Plumb Bob

I don't think it's a point in favor of mod-cons that they use more electricity.

It is true that "my gas bill went up" is an uneducated thing to say. Degree-days went up this year, $/therm fluctuates. The question is whether therms/degree-day went up. Try explaining that to the math-impaired (which is 80% of the US population).

Magnehelic

Yes.....but

therms/hdd can ONLY be compared when there is history to draw from correct? Which means if she wasn't tracking it in winter 07, that the comparisons we've made are about all we can do right? Or should I have her go back and try to track historical data from 07? (not that I would.....like I said...she's happy. Customer#2 may be a little harder to please)

Don

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hot_rod

in my area

when you use less therms, they raise the price per therm. I've seen it on customers bills! The utility claims they need a certain amount to cover operating expenses and raise the price per therm in warm winters.

Get copies of a years worth of bills from her and compare actual cost per therm, not just therms used.

hr

Supply House Rick

Ummm

"heating bills went up......therm usage down.....what's wrong?"

Energy price per therm increased more than energy usage decreased! Duh!