Giannoni heat exchanger

Supply House Rick

Good thoughts, I'll try that direction.

Thanks, Ken

Supply House Rick

Hi Larry

Does OSHA stand for Occupational Safety and Health Association?

Owner involvement amounts to calling when they don't have heat or hot water. They are used to the cast iron boilers that shove their dollars up the flue and run uncared for and unnoticed for years at a time.

Now they have high efficiency boilers and put the dollars into repairs; they don't like it nearly as much.

Your unit has one major advancement in the blocked drain switch on the condensate trap. Are those shots taken before or after cleaning? Natural gas?

I have 26 of these installed, and those shown are some of the better ones. Of the 26, two have had new heat exchangers at the five year mark, and I'm fighting the mfg. co. for another one, one of those in the pics.

Look carefully and see if you can figure out which one.

Ken

Supply House Rick

Hi Dave

These units are all installed in roughly a five mile radius.

Our air quality is excellent year round. I doubt that our gas should be a problem, but I'm about to check into that.

Ken

Larry (from OSHA)

Hi Ken

It's administration not association, but here in Minnesota, I work for the state so it's a little different anyway. Yes, those pics are before cleaning. And I totally get your point about the blocked drain switch. I'm still very curious about all these pics you have of severely screwed up boilers. I wish I could determine which one you are talking about, so don't keep us in suspense too long. This whole high efficiency thing has so many twists to it. I look forward to what you can share.

Larry

Perry_5

I agree, but another thought

I agree that a proper analysis needs to be made; and from several boilers. Take future samples - and don't contaminate them by handling them with your hands (i.e. use very clean spoons to put chunks into plastic bags or jars.

I am sure that the Natural Gas utility can provide a very detailed breakdown of their gas as well. I also have filed somewhere a document about the variations in natural gas within the US (and perhaps Canada).

But my other thought is that this may really be an indication of poor burner design. If the burners are not working right you get incomplete combustion of a lot of minor fractions of the natural gas that a better burner design will handle without problems.

Do you perchance have any other boilers in your area (Vitodens, etc) to give a comparison on what kind of deposits they get? Check with your competitors as well as I'm sure there would be general interest in such a comparison.

Perry

Supply House Rick

Larry

Here's the one, and what's hidden under the disc. There's also a close-up for your enjoyment.

Ken

Larry (from OSHA)

Perry

You've had your Vitodens going for a while, have you seen anything remotely resembling these types of deposits attaching themselves to your heat exchanger? I would suspect that at least some of the manufacturers that use this particular HX have examined and determined what this crud is.

Larry

Perry_5

I'll let you know for sure soon

Last year (about 12 months of inservice time) there might have been 1 or 2 mouse turd size pieces of debris and a tan discoloration on parts of the HX (I did not take pictures).

We should be opening the HX next week and I intend to take pictures.

Mark Eatherton

SO....

What did the building maintenance people say about their chemical use in the cooling tower Ken?

Curious minds want to know.

ME

Supply House Rick

chemicals

Hi Mark

They say there are no chemicals used in or around the cooling tower.

I am now in touch with the gas utility to see if there is anything on their end.

There is a post and picture in another thread for an IBC boiler opened about a week ago, and it has the same kind of fouling in it. Being a vertical chamber does prevent the pile-up on the tubes like in the Giannoni. Notice that there is not a thing on the divider plate.

Ken