Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

Steamhead (in transit)

turning on and off a lot?

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LK

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

I have a steam heating system with Trane Concealed Heaters from 1935 (the year my house was built) imbedded in the walls. Several of the Concealed Heaters are now not producing heat. Both the Supply Side and the Return Side are cold to the touch. Someone mentioned that the Return Side might have a trap in it that was stuck open, thus creating the issue. Is anyone familiar with these systems to know a way I can diagnose the problem? Also, are there parts from other manufacturers that can be used to replace faulty parts to fix this system? Thanks!

Steamhead (in transit)

Some of these Trane systems

didn't have traps. Instead they have orifices at the inlet connections to meter the incoming steam so it doesn't reach the return connection. If you can take the cover off one of your Concealed Heaters, take a pic of the piping and post it here, we can tell you what you're looking at.

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DAZ

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

Thanks for spending time on this. The picture labeled "Heat Right 2" is from the right side (supply); the picture labeled "Heat Left 6" is from the left side (return).

Jack_44

a question for you

Steamhead is the man you need to listen to, but...

Have you followed the return below the floor? I've got several traps plumbed in so that you can only reach them in the crawlspace.

DAZ

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

I don't think it is possible to follow the return below the floor, since the ones that are not working on the first floor return down to the basement, which is finished (so all the pipes from the steam heating system are now enclosed in the walls, unfortunately)-- and the ones that are not working on the second floor return down through the walls of the first floor.

Steamhead (in transit)

It's probably an Orifice system

unless, as John says, they piped the traps in the basement. This setup isn't something we see that often, but is not unknown.

My next question is, how does the air get out of the return lines? There should be a large vent at the end of the dry return, probably (but not always) in the boiler room, to do this.

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DAZ

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

I will check to see if I can find the vent. Do you have a picture(s) of what this should look like?

If this is an Orifice system, as you mention, is it difficult to fix when some of the Concealed Heaters are not producing heat?

Thanks again for your input.

DAZ

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

I am attaching some pictures from the Boiler Room and the one place in the finished basement that has some small doors to access the ceiling. In case it is relevant, one of the pictures shows the pressure guage, taken immediately after the flames went off on the boiler after heat was called for.

The other thing, in case it is relevant, is that we do hear a clanking noise from time to time from various spots in the walls. This usually happens at night, when it is very cold out.

DAZ

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Problem

Yes (if you are referring to the automatic water refilling). It is not constant. It refills a couple of times a day when it is a cold day.

LK

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Insights Appreciated

If anyone has any insights on the problem I am having with my Trane Concealed Steam Heaters, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Steamhead (in transit)

I Don't Think It Should Be Re-Filling

"a couple of times a day". It should only re-fill a couple of times a season. I think you got a leak somewhere.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Boiler may be leaking

above the waterline, sending the steam up the chimney instead of to the convectors. Have a pro check it out.

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LK

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Insights Appreciated

Thanks for your responses. This is very helpful and I really appreciate it.

If the boiler is leaking above the waterline, can this be fixed, or would I need to replace the boiler? I have noticed steam coming out of the chimney, so this could be it. If the boiler is properly working, should there be any steam coming out of the chimney?

If I have a leak somewhere, will it be obvious where that is? I recently noticed a water stain on the shingles of our porch, where it meets the floor (so this is the outer wall of our first floor living room). I didn't think much of it, since it is a spot which is between 2 of the Concealed Heaters. I assume behind that wall are pipes leading to and from the Heaters. Do you think it is possible there is a hole in one of those pipes? If so, can these types of pipes be repaired, or would they have to be replaced?

I will have a pro check these things out, as suggested, but I find it is helpful to be knowledgeable in advance of that. I looked in "Find A Professional" and it says that "at this time there are no professionals for this area". Can you recommend someone in Lower Westchester County New York who is good with steam systems such as mine?

Thanks again!

Steamhead (in transit)

I am Sorry to Say

That your boiler has reached the end of its useful life and will most likely need to be replaced.

I have seen where the Trane convectors have developed small holes in the elements. One or two small holes over time may have caused your boiler to fail prematurely.

It may be possible to patch these convector holes with J-B Weld (epoxy).

It is very unlikely that J-B Weld will work for long on your boiler. Please don't ask me how I know!

When you have your new boiler installed, add a Hydrolevel VXT with a counter to track any boiler killing leaks.

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LK

Trane Concealed Steam Heat Insights Appreciated

Thanks again. It is really kind of you to provide this information. You are very knowledgeable! This morning, after heat was called for, I put my hand under the boiler vent and felt a lot of hot air/steam coming through the vent and then up the chimney -- so I think you are right about the boiler leaking (unless it is typical to have some amount of hot air/steam coming off the boiler when it is firing).

I will definitely add the Hydrolevel VXT counter, as you suggested.

Is there a reliable way to find the small holes in the elements that you mentioned and patch them? Do you think it is possible, based on what I described and my pictures, that there are holes in a location other than the convectors?

Could you tell me roughly what my boiler should cost to replace, all-in? I have a Weil McLain EGH 95-PI. Also, how long should these boilers last?

At the same time that I replace the boiler, do you think I should replace the vents that I posted pictures of, or is this unnecessary?

After seeing my pictures, do you believe my system has traps, or the orifices you mentioned?

Finally, do you think replacing the boiler will solve my originally posted problem of the 7 Concealed Heaters that are currently not producing heat?

I assume you don't do any work in New York, but if you do please let me know, as I would love to have someone like you replace this boiler for me.

Sorry for all of the questions, but I really appreciate your insights, and your patience in responding to my inquiries.

Steamhead (in transit)

In General

The Host of this site asks that we do not discuss prices. Boilers should last decades.

It is most certainly possible that you have leaks other than at the convectors. Finding them, ah, that can be a challenge. You may need to wait until you can generate enough steam into your system to begin your search.

It is difficult to over-vent a vapor system. The more venting, the better. It appears you have a Trane Orifice System.

A properly sized and installed boiler, with clean water and lots of vents should heat ALL of your convectors quietly, quickly and all at the same time with less pressure then you yourself can blow into the pipes with your lungs.

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Heather_5

The way the topic title was written I thought this was a post about Trane hiding issues with their systems.

Phweew...