End of line F & T traps

Joe Jesse_2

Sorry I have been gone a few days. I will follow up in next day or two with answers and pictures.

Joe Jesse_2

End of line F & T traps

I am having a new 400,000 BTU steam boiler installed in a 1920's, 2 1/2 story house. Going back from the main vents I cannot locate any F&T traps. The return lines in the basement near the boiler are copper. Should I assume someone eliminated the traps after installation and replace them now? Would anyone ever place them inside a wall? Thanks in advance for any help or advise. Joe

Brad White_191

Need more information, Joe

I assume that this is a two-pipe steam system? It may also be a vapor system, one which uses direct returns express from each radiator to the wet return (below the waterline). This too serves as a trap-seal.

I would not assume that they exist or once did until I know more.

Ideally, no, they would not be in a wall (unless someone added a wall later. (Edgar Allen Poe's The Cask of Amontillado is frightful reading if you are a steam trap, I suppose

Traps are serviceable beasts and need attention now and again. Tough enough to install let alone in a wall, so that would not be too likely as original construction that I could see.

Please tell us more about your system if you would. Photos help too.

tim smith

400mbh, what size of house do you have?? Have you done a

radiator count and sizing to calculate how many feet of edr. You gotta have a house of at least 10,000 feet to be putting that size of boiler in or you live in antarctica. Tim

Steamhead (in transit)

Please post

pictures of your system: Radiators, valves, any odd bits of stuff, your boiler and piping.

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Steamhead (in transit)

I Second Mr. Smith

"For the love of G-d" check your boiler sizing.

"Yes, for the love of G-d" says Mr. White.

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Joe Jesse_2

This central Ill. house has 5000 sq ft without the basement. I am having a new boiler installed in Apr.2009.
The house has a 2 pipe steam system. A 3/4" return runs along each of two mains back to a manifold & into the Hartford loop below the boiler water level.Each of these have a radiator trap and a air vent at ceiling level just before dropping to the manifold. There is a 2" pipe connecting to the ends of the mains. This runs to the boiler and is vented at ceiling height, no trap, and then drops down to the manifold. Is this correct?

There are 25 radiators with an EDR of 924 sq ft.
924 X 1.33 X 240 = 294,941
A 400,000 MBH boiler at 82% eff. would be 328,000.

If I leave the basement radiators off permanently, as I usually do, I would have 22 radiators with an EDR of 781 sq ft. 781 X 1.33 X 240 = 249,295
A 300,000 MBH boiler at 82% would be 246,000.

Would there be much of a fuel savings, (nat. gas) with the 300,000 unit?

Steamhead (in transit)

Not really

you might have the radiators turned off, but the pipes are still there. This adds to the pick-up factor. Stay with the 400,000 unit and have it down-fired a bit if it short-cycles.

What model boiler are you considering?

Also, if you're in central Illinois, you have a real steam expert available up in Amboy.... Dave "Boilerpro" Bunnell.

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The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Another consideration in boiler sizing....

If it is a 2 pipe vapor system and not a steam system, the radiation load is often only 80% of the standing radiation. I have found vapor systems are very common in Illinois due to the fact that one of the most well known vapor system manufacturers was in Moline. Also, if you have improved the home you can effectively reduce the radiation load and boiler capacity to meet the current heat load without removing/ moving radiators. That does sound like alot of radition for the size and location of the home. Also, considering the cost of energy, I would expect a rapid payback for a thorough system review and room by room heatloss.

I would also not use a typical gas fired steam boiler, but go with a high efficiency Slant Fin Intrepid or Smith boiler with a power gas burner. If you add room by room themostatic control, or often have rooms shut off, I would go with a modulating power gas burner.

Boilerpro

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