Thermostat radiator control

mark ransley

I have one pipe steam I can not balance with Gortons 4-D, Is there a thermostat raditor valve made that is quality and doenst cost to much, is it called a TRV. Is it hard to install. What might be a charge per radiator for me to have it done in Chicago

Unknown

Mark- Maybe you can give us a bit more information to what problems you are having with your steam system,'

Gorton makes a #4 and also a #D. Big difference in venting capacity between the two. You mentioned a "4-D" so I'm not sure to which one you are referring.

Normal Radiator vents allow the air in the radiator to escape but close when the steam reaches them. TRVs (Thermostatic Radiator Valves) have the same function as normal radiator vents but also have the ability to stay closed if the room is at the temperature they are set for.
Since they are closed, the air in the radiator can not escape and therefore since the radiator is filled with air, the steam can't get in and heat the radiator. TRVs basically are used to control over heating in a room. They are easy to install - you just replace the normal radiator vent ( the silver bullet gizmo on the opposite side of the radiator from steam pipe) with a TRV. One thing you need with each TRV is a vacuum breaker as this allows air to enter the radiator after the boiler ends its cycle. Some TRVs have built in vacuum breakers and some must have them added.

The OPSK is considered on of the best but is expensive!

http://www.maconcontrols.com/pdfs/OPSK1204.pdf

Danfoss is another good one:

http://www.pexsupply.com/product_dtl.asp?pID=5551&brand=Danfoss&cID=789

Might I suggest, if you don't already have them, that you get Dan's books on Steam Heating. (See "A Steamy Deal" at the bottom of this page) Start with "We Got Steam Heat". It is written for the homeowner and will explain all about home steam heating. Easy reading and crammed full of information. Dan's books have saved me a lot of money and hassle. They are a "must" for the homeowner with a steam heating system.
I hope the above is of help to you let us know a bit more information then maybe we can help you more.
- Rod

mark ransley

I am trying to lower heat in overheated units that a 4 gorton wont work they are 76-80. Do these need a seperate wall thermostat. If they go in the air vent hole do they realy control temp

Unknown

Okay I understand better now. The "Gorton 4-D" had me thinking in other ways as a "D" has huge venting capacity (equal to a Gorton #1.

Let's go through a TRV cycle. As I mentioned, the TRV is a vent,(an "intelligent vent" to quote Brad) Let's say we have the TRV set at 68 degrees. When the room is cold (say 60 degrees)the TRV works just like any other radiator vent in that it vents air from the radiator but when the steam reaches it, it closes. As the steam is now inside the radiator, the room heats up. When the boiler shuts off air reenters the radiator through the vacuum breaker. The boiler cycles again and the TRV vents the air again from the radiator until steam reaches it and then it closes and does not allow the steam to escape. So far it has been acting just like a regular radiator vent. (Room temp is now 66 degrees)

When the room temperature reaches the dial setting, which we set at 68 degrees, the vent shuts, steam or no steam. At the end of this boiler cycle air renters the radiator again via the vacuum breaker. The boiler again starts its cycle and begins to produce steam. Since the TRV has reached the desired room temperature (68 degrees), the TRV vent remains closed and the air in the radiator can't escape. Since there is air in the radiator, the steam can't fill the radiator. No steam = no heat! When the room temperature drops below the set temperature (68 degrees) the TRV goes back to acting like an ordinary radiator vent. Take note of the important of the vacuum breaker in the TRV's operation.

I hope that my explanation helps you understand the TRVs operation. TRVs can be got with a remote thermostat. They can also be got with a lock out so the set temperature can't be changed. See following link:

http://na.heating.danfoss.com/PCMPDF/RA2000 1PS-DS.pdf


Other notes on TRVs:

1.Don't use a TRV in the same room with the thermostat that controls the boiler.

2.If you have covered radiators you will have to use a remote TRV thermostat as the cover doesn't allow the TRV to get the correct room temperature.

3.TRVs are used on other types of heating systems. Make sure you order the model for 1 Pipe Steam systems. It must come with a vacuum breaker!

I hope this is of help to you.
- Rod

mark ransley

Thanks for the explanation, but with the radiator being hotter than the room can the TRV without wall thermostat really get the room heated right. It sounds great but with 50 needed eventualy I sure want to do things as cheaply as I can. I think these are about 50$ each? Thanks.

Unknown

Not sure quite what you are trying to do. The Danfoss has a range from 45 degrees to 85 degrees so that should handle most situations. Keep in mind the TRVs only stop overheating. They can't call for more heat than is already being produced.

Maybe you need to address the master thermostat situation.
Perhaps if you consult with one of the steam specialists in your area they might be able to work out what you need and the easiest way to do it.

Luke_6

Set back Thermostats

I have propane fired baseboard hot water heat. Since the recovery time for this type of heat is slow, would it be better (cheaper) to maintain the temp rather then set it back at night?

Unknown

You might want to use the search function on this page to see what you can find as there has been a lot of discussion here on this subject in the past. Generally with a slow recovery, the thought seems to be to only use a setback of a couple of degrees. Also you can save fuel if you can handle the thermostat a degree or two lower than what you normally set it. Sweaters are cheap compared to fuel!

Luke_6

Thanks

Thank you Rod for you answer, I have taken the set back from 4 degrees to 2 degrees and will see what happens!

Unknown

Didn't know you already were down to a narrow margin. As I remember some of the discussions, up to 5 degrees was considered okay though a 10 degree setback was considered too much. Keep a record of recovery times and that might give you a clue to the most optimal timing. With this cold weather we are having I think I'd go with the minimal.

- Rod

nicholas bonham-carter

overheated units

are you sure that you have exhausted all other possibilities for giving even heat:

low pressure???????????????

plenty of MAIN venting????????????????

good thermostat placement and anticipation???????????

functioning rad vents??????????????????????????????????????

try again, maybe you will only need the trv's in a handfull of units.--nbc

bb_10

check the libraary

Mark:

Look in the library under the "Resources" tab at the top of the page.

Then check for Thermostatic Radiator Vaves. There is a good piece on 1 Pipe Steam Systems that should help you a bit.

If you go the TRV route make sure you get one with a vacuum breaker.

bb