Should I wait or act?

Alex Iannicelli

First of all here is my system: I own a small 14000 sqft house that was built in the 1920s. We have an oil fired steam boiler with a tankless coil for hot water. The boiler is a Weil McLain A-B-366-E Series 3. It is rated at a D.O.E of 109 and has a Net I.B.R. of 340 Sq Ft. or 81 MBH. Everyone seems to think the boiler is about 20 years old. Also, I have all copper piping. We have NO problems with the heat from our steam system (other than what I state below). I calculated my six radiators at a total EDR of 183 or 43.9MBH. I added a pickup factor in and came up with 58.4MBH.

Now with the problem: In the last couple months of heat I had noticed that I was having to manually fill the boiler every few (2-5) days. I figured I had a small leak in the boiler above the water line since there was no water on the floor...until about a week before Christmas. I went down in the basement and the water level was almost at the bottom of the sight tube and there was water all over the floor. I knew it was not the presure release valve because there was no water in the front of the boiler. It was all under the boiler and behind it.

I had a service guy from the oil company come and look at it and he told me, "it's dead." So I called a bunch of heating companies to get quotes. (We also wanted to switch away from oil since we have gas in the house already.)

In the last few weeks the boiler continued to leak out almost all the water every once in a while, but it was generally working. Then I reread "I got steam" and came up with a possible cause. I had lowered the presuretrol to its lowest setting as I had read in Dan's book, but I had noticed that the pressure meter was getting up to around 5 when it was trying to heat the house, but the presuretrol was not cutting out. I thought that it was possible that the pigtail that was connected to the presuretrol was clogged so I slid a piece of sheet metal in there to engage the presuretrol a bit sooner. Ever since my little piece of metal was installed, the system has been working fine - no leaking (but I still need to fill the boiler every 3-5 days).

So I have two questions:
1) Is my boiler really dead, or does the pigtail just need to be cleaned so that the pressure doesn't get to high and blow out a seal again? I admit - this is wishful thinking, and I don't believe it myself.
2) The contractor that we want to go with is proposing installing a Burnham Power vented gas fired steam boiler with a rating of only 39 MBH. This doesn't seem to be enough. He also wants to connect an indirect water heater to it and later I will be heating an addition (380sqft) with a radiant floor loop off of the water heater. It seems to me I should make him go with the next bigger boiler (rated at 65MBH).

Oh, and also he has quoted me a price of about $8000 for all of this work.

Here are some pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/atiannicelli/Boiler#

Any Comments?

tim smith

Yes, I would say it is time to put it to rest. The corrosion is

getting pretty bad in that corner. Also, not a good idea to be fooling w/ pressuretrol. To keep you going, you should have the pig tail cleaned and also make sure low water cutoff works and that relief valve is clear and working. Side question: how old is the copper piping, there has always been a debate on how copper lasts in a steam system and yours is one of the only ones I have seen that is all copper.??

JohnNY

That boiler is unsafe.

Get rid of it before it becomes a bigger problem.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Alex Iannicelli

Copper pipe.

The copper pipe is (as far as I know) as old as the boiler. Most have guessed that the system is twenty years old. I have had absolutely no problems with the copper pipes. I had one radiator replaced with two other in-wall types when we remodeled our kitchen and the guy who did the work said that the copper pipe looks great. I haven't insulated the pipes in the basement because it keeps the basement from freezing and my office is down there. The small amount of heat that we get down there helps to keep the first floor floors warmer. When we finish the addition and I move the washer/dryer and my office out of the basement then I will probably insulate the pipes.

Unknown

Copper and steam

It's been a big debate here for a long , long time . Personally , we use steel for steam and copper for the returns . But I've seen alot of copper mains that have been running leak free for decades . My guess is cleaning methods of the joints and the use of strong solder would be the reason some copper mains last so long .

I like the Weil Mclain . But the elastomer rings between the sections are the weak point on these steamers . And I'll bet that's where a small leak started and is just going to get progressivly larger .

Like the others said , I'd replace the boiler before it turns into a bigger issue . A better option to heat the basement is to add some baseboard off the bottom of the boiler . Then you can insulate the mains which'll send the steam heat where you want it to go . And control the basement heat more accurately .

Alex Iannicelli

But what about the Burnham

OK, I get it. I should replace this one. But what about the Burnham that we had quoted to us? Is it a good model. Doesn't it sound like we need to go with the next bigger size since we are going to be adding a radiant floor?

Thanks for the replies. It has at least confirmed that I need to get rid of this one.

joel_19

boiler

A steam boiler must be big enough to support the radiation so it should equal your edr or at least be close. If your taking a water loop off the bottom that's especially true so personally i'd be going with the bigger one. If you build a nice big drop header with a little extra BTU shouldn't sink you until you get your radiant loop in. Consider that you say you have no problems now and your exsisting boiler is WAY more Btu than the boilers your looking at.

Perry_5

The Burnham MegaSteam is reported to be the best

If your vendor quoted a Burnham MegaSteam Boiler (check the model) - then that is the best home steam boiler on the market (as reported in other threads here that discuss the pro's & Con's of different boilers).

So it is your best choice if that is what the vendor is quoting.

Something to know though: A properly installed boiler - of any kind; outperforms and outlast a poorly installed best boiler. The Online Store tab sells some great books on steam heat you should get so you can understand what should be done - and also to understand what you should be doing as a homeowner. You can have discussions up front with the installation contractor - or with severarl if needed. The Resources & Systems tabs also have some great information - although you may have to dig a bit.

Best wishes on your project.

Perry

Unknown

I agree with Joel , but

The new boiler needs to be sized to the EDR of your radiators . This is a good way to weed out the the not so smart contractors from the ones who know steam . If they don't do an EDR , look elsewhere .

With steam, you do not want to install a larger boiler to handle additional zones . It'll short cycle , possibly have knocking and banging issues and have a decrease in performance .

If the BTUs of the additional zones is within the pickup factor of the boiler , it'll be no problem . If the new zone is larger than the pickup , it'll still work but it might take some more time to send steam to the rads . Sort of like a built in preference . I use a factor of 33% . Just as an example - if the rads are measured and we need a boiler with 100,000 btus , we can add an additional 33,000 BTUs , more or less , of heat safely . If your mains are insulated , you can increase the pickup factor .

I haven't installed the Burnham Megasteam , but I've used the V8 series often and consider it a fine steamer . With both boilers you can use an internal coil to power the additional zone .