Heating poor family

Steve Garson_2

I have been helping a poor family get resettled in a new flat in the 2-family that is heated with steam heat. Fortunately, they have a new WM SGO-3. Unfortunately, the near boiler piping was installed wrong and the header is around 18-inches from the water line.

As a result, I assume, the main vents are getting stuck in the open position with dirt, each day, so they remain open. Every ten hours, the boiler shuts off on low water, she refills to the water line and then starts the whole process over again. As a result, the mother can't sleep through the night. I have replaced the vents and 24 hours later, they are stuck open.

The landlord has contacted the installing plumbing company and is getting the run around. They should do the work at no charge (installed 11 months ago) but I suspect they will stop returning her calls.

I've been going over to clean the vents (new Gortons) but I don't have the time. The system has dry returns with two vents mounted 12 inches above each dry return.

So now I want to help the tenant AND the landlord (woman with kids) who lives in the other half of the building.

With the present cold weather, how do we find a reasonable plumber who can repipe the near-boiler piping? I can take digital photos to avoid the need for a site visit to check on the job. It's kind of like an emergency job, but at least they have heat. That poor boiler must be getting enough oxygen to corrode it pretty bad.

Thanks,

Steve

ed wallace

fixing pipes

steve i would be happy to give a price on fixing the pipes

Steve Garson_2

Ed:

I'll get some clear digital photos with a tape measure in the shot so you can see what's there. The piping is less than a year old.

Steve

Steve Garson_2

Here are some digital photos

This should give a good picture of the work to be done. The header is only 18-inches above the water line. So we need to at at least 6 inches, preferably more.

The photos have a tape measure in them so you can see the exact measurements.

Again, the issue they are having is that the two main vents get stuck open after ten to fifteen hours of use. Even new ones are getting stuck open.

Steve

Steve Garson_2

Can this be remedied by simply replacing the present 12-inch riser with a 20-inch riser and then using a slightly longer nipple and another elbow to make a drop header? That would allow all the other plumbing to remain as is.

Would this be correct for dryer steam?

Steve

Brad White_191

Good Intentions

At least the pipe routing has the marks of good practice, with the steam flow entering the equalizer directly rather than a side take-off we see way too often.

I agree, a taller initial riser is essential and there is room to do that. If a dropped header could be done, that too would benefit, I agree. It is also an opportunity to improve a couple of other deficiencies that I see.

In one of the photos, the most stand-away shot, there is a lateral take-off going to the left while the main header take-off continues upward. I suspect that these would benefit from having separate connections, avoiding that hard turn to the left. Both seem equal in size so presuming here that they serve similar amounts of radiation.

The drop to the equalizer though, I would at least remove the bushing and make that a proper tapered reducer to the equalizer size. What I cannot tell is, what is the equalizer size? It seems small, maybe 1" IPS versus the recommended 1-1/2" IPS or better yet, a 2". While at this, I would also extend that 2" main downward about a foot before reducing.

This will allow room for collection of condensate and entrained moisture off the boiler especially during start-up. If the equalizer is a continuation of the full 2" size, this of course will not be necessary. It will just continue down to the boiler return.

That restricted/under-sized equalizer can cause surging and disrupt the waterline stability, promoting wet steam.

One other thing neither said nor seen: I do not know if there is a Hartford Loop or at least a true water seal at the return. Too often I have seen dry returns drop to what is the presumed waterline, then go laterally into the equalizer where the Hartford Loop normally would.

With an erratic waterline, this can expose the returns to steam, so a positive drop to near the floor then looping up into that connection point, with a close-nipple, is a worthwhile measure.

I second Ed working on this. If I can be of assistance, let me know. I like working with Ed.

Steve Garson_2

Brad:

Thanks for the feedback. I like working with Ed, as well.

The main vents shouldn't need Y-strainers to keep working, right?

I don't know if the landlord is going to want to do any more than the minimum. It's different when the person paying for the work is not paying for the oil.

Steve

Steve Garson_2

Brad:

Look again at the photo: "SGO3 Full" which shows the hartford loop at the right. How does it look?

Steve

Brad White_191

That is it!

That is it, Steve. Thanks, I missed that. I feel much better about that condition.

Curious about the electrical wiring, how the burner power connection allows the door swing to promote cleaning but also how close to the firebox cover is that low-voltage wiring?

Not to go on a fishing expedition but just an observation.

Brad White_191

Wye Strainers

I would not put wye strainers before a vent. If there is that much crud, it masks or ignores the problem (that something needs a good cleaning).

Understood re: the conflicting priorities but together, I think that less oil can be consumed for greater comfort.

Steve Garson_2

Good observation. The low voltage wiring is an inch or so from the door, but I can see that when it comes time for cleaning, there way that wiring was routed will require disconnecting it. Although maybe the coiling will unwind long enough. The BX cable has a connector that just unsnaps.

Charlie from wmass

Have you tried flushing out the steam mains? A drop header will dry the steam and with the unions it should not be a big deal to install. Weils seem to produce steam really fast for the volume of the boiler and this is why they also use receivers built into the returns to add water volume to the system. If she is adding water where is the water going? You may want to install a tee and drain on the return at the hartford loop for draining and flushing. IS that 2 1/2" on the riser and header? This could be the issue as there is only on riser with it only being 2 inch it is cause high velocity steam so it is blasting out the crud from the system. What is the pressuretrol set at?

Steve Garson_2

Charlie:

I haven't tried flushing the mains. From what I have have read, that could open up a pandora's box.

Where is the water going? Simple: it is all escaping through the main vents which do not close and leak steam. Just like a tea kettle boiling until it is empty.

Steve

Charlie from wmass

It may open up a box but at least you can expect the contents as oppposed to getting a 12:00 am call with them. what was the old boiler the sgo replaced?

Steve Garson_2

I have no idea what the old boiler was. I'm not their contractor, my wife and I are simply helping them get settled in their new home and life. I am tempted to go there now and rebuild their near boiler piping, but I really should wait for Ed to return my call.