Man I am sick of some co. just trying to sell equipment

John Mills_4

Last spring local company told a lady her older Bryant boiler had a crack in the heat exchanger and was pouring CO into the house. For a healthy price, they'll replace it.

One of our techs ran a 2nd opinion. His head is very dry! He called me and said "I'm not too bright about this but if the thing really has a crack, shouldn't I be getting water not CO from it?"

Yes, lots of thieves in this industry these days. We did end up replacing the boiler recently for other reasons but it was solid and dry!

tim smith

Man I am sick of some co. just trying to sell equipment

This is probably at least the 20th time this season that we get a call from new client who wants a bid on new boiler. I always ask why they are replacing and a lot of the time I hear "we were told by other service company that parts are no longer available and you have X wrong with your boiler and the mfr does not make that part anymore. Welllllllllll, my first question is, what make and model is your boiler, what part did they say was bad? It's a Weil Mclain VHE boiler and they said the ignition control is bad. "Give me a minute while I look on the shelf". First, it is a White Rodgers hot surface ignition, There are replacements for that, there is a Honeywell universal replacement for that, Weil mclain has a kit for that. This just irks me that people either don't care, don't know or just want to sell equipment. This one was yesterday.. Now it's good for us as we always have a customer for life after saving them around 8k or so but this goes beyond the money to me, this is predatory practice and just makes me pissed. Tim

Paul Fredricks_9

Just to play devil's advocate here, as I tend to do, remember that you are hearing what the homeowner thought they heard. We hear things from homeowners everyday that they said our tech said, but he didn't.

To use John's post as an example: The tech may have said there is a small crack in the combustion chamber, but it's OK for now. The homeowner asked what could happen if it got worse. The tech says it can effect the flame, causing the unit to run dirtier and producing soot and possibly CO. The homeowner asked if it can be fixed. The tech said yes, but at the age of the unit it may make more sense to think about replacing it, no sense putting good money after bad.

Now the homeowner thinks the unit is cracked and producing lots of CO.

Now, I'm not saying that this happened in either of the above instances, but I've seen it happen MANY times.

Steamhead (in transit)

Not so hard to believe

I've seen the same thing.

In one case, a crooked "tech" stripped the nozzle adapter in a Carlin 99FRD, told the lady she needed a whole new boiler and left her without heat or hot water when we were expecting a drop to 20-degree temperatures. The Carlin was an OEM configuration; I hung a Beckett on there until the new Carlin drawer assembly came in.

In another, the firebox had collapsed and the "tech" said a new one wasn't available. Again, he told the lady she needed a whole new boiler. I exposed him as the liar he is with a couple phone calls.

In both cases, I advised the customer to switch oil companies and they did.

If I had an employee who was doing things like this, I'd fire him immediately. These crooks make the whole industry look bad.

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lee_7

depends

YOu can have a crack without water. if it is a cast iron boiler, the sections might have lost their gaskets and be leaked co into space. You tell me if it cost effective to attempt to pull a 20 year old boiler apart to replace gaskets and put back together again. 2 guys 8 hours minimum, with no guarentee to will be able to be put back in service.

[Deleted User]

Or the 84 year

old lady whose heat died on a cold, icy, nite. The Plumber arrived, w/ his young daughter who sat w/ the lady drinking hot chocolate & eating cookies, while her father diagnosed the problem.

Conclusion. Gas valve is dead. No replacements. Need new boiler. Big $$. Can rip old one out Saturday. Install new Monday. Sign here. She did. But.

She had friends. They leaned on me. Slip/slid over. 160* on boiler. Replaced B&G Series 100 Coupler. Voila. Heat.

Called Head Marketing Guy @ the gas utility. Told him what one of his preferred contractors had tried. His reply. "What am I supposed to do about it?" Click.

Unknown

As an instructor

who teaches folks how to repair stuff not replace. It really bothers me when techs tell me they are under pessure from ownership to replace not repair.

It is not always fair to the customer when the equipment is not that old to rip them off by attempting to sell them a new one.

One company told me that all Powerpile systems were dangerous and that many folks had been overcome from CO from those units that had self propulsion they called it. Ignorance is one of the worst things we have lurking around in our industry.

Even instructors are a problem I find. I was sitting in a class when a questions was asked about thermocouples and the answer was sell them a retrofit kit and convert to spark ignition. The statement was then made not only is it safer but you will save 25% on your gas bill.

Unknown

I recall one,,,

A real estate co I do a lot of work for calls me. One of the furnaces in a lessee serviced space has a cracked heat exchanger per another service co, would I take a look and give them a price on replacement. I go out there, the burner compartment is completely disassembled and left that way so noone else can check it out. I do a visual top and bottom, no cracks evident. I assemble it and fire it up, nothing disturbing the flames when the blower comes on. I do a CO with the blower off, nothing. There wasn't a damn thing wrong with it. Got me a new account and the everlasting love and devotion of the real estate company that day .

Leo_20

Horror Stories

Any ideas how many of these horror stories come from companies that give sales commissions to the techs? Just curious.

Leo

burnerman_2

Well said Paul.I am one of the guys who try to keep them running then another guy from company x comes by for a toilet or leaky pipe sees the 48 year old kawanee says the oil company is puttin the screws to you they just want you to pay high dollar for thier oil then we lose an install and they switch oil companys too so you tell me what to do?????

bill_105

Get well soon!

You should love those guys.It has been my experiance that when this happens there stands a good chance you will receive rave reveiws.I had one like this ten years ago, from that I got five boiler replacements. Word of mouth is a wonderful thing, and its free.

Jed_2

So, what's the aftermath?

Is anyone dropping a dime on these crooks?

Jim Pompetti

Rip off

How many times have I gone on a call ,as a second option , a local company tells them the equipment is not worth fixing . I found on one case that the condensate pump was bad . This company rates its techs , by the number of units they condemn. Its a well know and "respected" company . How many people have been ripped off , if found out , all they say is "the tech made a mistake, so sorry" . How do you stop this or is it possible .

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Mark Custis

Jim

I think that guy retired.

I left him because he could not understand combustion.

I live in 44054.

radiantdave

shady guys

THE LATEST is guys with digital cameras they show a picture to the h/o of a bad heat exchanger and tell them this is what they found during the cleaning special they sold them.
they tell them they cant leave it this way so they red tag it and turn off fuel supply. leave them without heat and say there systems expert will be there soon to sugest a replacement option. we discovered this ploy when a h/o called in a friend in the biz and he tested and confirmed there was no crack that the heat exchanger was fine . very shady for the most advertised installers in our area

Steve Ebels_3

See it all the time

I think that sometimes it's the default mode of operation when a repairman can't figure out what is wrong with the equipment. If they can't figure it out, replace it.

Had a service call this AM to a home with a Bryant variable speed furnace. The young gal was told by the other repair guy that the furnace was shot and offered to replace it next week for $1,900. (GAK!, I can only guess what kind of an installation that might have been.)
It simply needed a new control board.

don_185

The other side

of the coin.

If you keep thinking like just a tech you'll never grow your company.I'm not saying to sell something to somone they dont need however.I'm not going to keep repairing something that should have been replace many years ago.

Are we doing the customer justice by leaving outdated equipment in place?

Let me give you a story being I too think like a tech.
I get a call from a customer that liveds in florida in the winter and comes here for the summer.

I get a call from him saying the ac downstairs is not working.I check things out and find that the tstat not energizing the system and find the stat is loose at the base
not making contact.Old t87.I tighten the screw system come on and everything find.

I send him a bill.I get a letter and a check in the mail a month later saying...Dear don.i think you for coming out to see me the other day.After all these years of doing business with you, I was shock to receive a bill in the mail for a service charge.You were not here for long and all you did was tighten two screws.He mad and thinks i'd screw him.

So after reading the letter I'm thinking maybe he had a bad day.I'm also thinking what could I've done differently.

Then, it hit me.If I would have put my sales hat on and sold him another t/stat and just said it was old and needed replacing he would still be a customer today.

You know what they say, I'm damn If I do and...........

Steamhead (in transit)

You don't need him

he doesn't respect the fact that you knew what screws to tighten, got the system working fairly quickly and didn't try to sell him a whole new A/C unit.

You did the right thing. There are better customers out there- don't lose sleep over that one.

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tim smith

Ok, here is the edge of the coin.

The way I look at it, not just thinking like a tech, owner or other. The Golden rule, treat someone like you would like to be treated. Yes give them the information about maybe newer equipment might serve them better or not, but in the final outcome, don't say it can't be fixed when it can, don't take money that you really don't have to. They will respect you and you will respect you.

ttekushan_3

screw tightening

There's screw tightening and then there's turning the screws. I've managed to find the middle ground. I'll tighten the screws, but I have no problem informing the customer that anyone else would have sold you a new thermostat and would have charged you $xxx.xx and no one is going to turn the screws on them today. "Its your lucky day, we both saved time and trouble. The charges are only $xx.xx instead of what I was afraid of." Its worked so far, and I'm not telling any lies. Merely informing.

Now, it may happen the other way, but percentage of client wise, its pretty small. Who knows? maybe they'll reconsider at some point. Like the point they get their first bill from another company!

realolman

Old story

you've probably all heard, but I like it, so here goes...

Power goes off to all of New York City and half of eastern seaboard. Repair guy looks around in a control panel, reaches in his tool bag and gets out a pair of lineman's pliers... taps on something in the panel and stuff starts clacking and whirring and lighting up. Pretty soon everything is up and power is restored.

When they get his bill they find it is itemized...$200,000.02 total

$0.02.......... tapping


$200,000.00.......... knowing where to tap