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no basement heat

Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
don't work well as it pertains to heat delivery. Too much temperature drop per radiator, and by the time it gets to the last radiator, there's no heat left to give up. When I run in to this scenario, and the pipes are nnot readily accessible, I out a 4 way reversing valve on it to change the direction of flow every so often, to spread the heat.

Did you individually purge each radiator? Large upright cast iron radiators have to be bottom filled, and top vented, unless you go in the bottom, and out the top, preferably in a diagonal pattern .

ME
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.

Comments

  • sidney r. braysidney r. bray Member Posts: 26
    no basement heat

    Having trouble getting heat to my basement hot water radiators. I used single pipe set-up with plenty of 90 elbows with coin vents to bleed air near the high spots up at the floor joists, but I only get water no air. Since it sounds like a flow problem and not an air problem is the only remedy mono-flow tees to force heat to these radiators or is there another more cost effective approach. My main level is also the older cast iron radiators but they all heat fine on a two pipe set-up. I even tried installing a circulator on the supply side to see if that would force heat through the basement loop, but to no avail. The main level is circulated on the return side as it came from the factory. Any other suggestions?
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Hot water LIKES to rise....

    Cold water wants to settle. Any radiators/convectors below the main are required to have a monoflow fitting on both the supply and return. Also required on high pressure drop components, like fan coil units, even if they are above the main.

    WHen you say single pipe system, I presume you mean a one pipe main system that runs around the perimeter of the building with a supply branch going to a heater, and the return branch going back to the same main. In other words, parallel flow through the heater when compared to the main.

    Also, when bleeding air, the pumps must be OFF, and it is a good idead to pull up on the pipes you are bleeding to insure that they are at the highest spot possible.

    If it flowed before, but does not flow now, it's either a closed valve, or an air issue, which can KILL the output of a one pipe system.

    ME

    EDIT: After reabsorbing your post, water is like my ex-brother in law. Wet lazy and stupid. If you tied a series loop, as opposed to a true one pipe system in to your existing two pipe system, the water is following the path of least resistance. You have to SHOW the water where YOU want it to go, because if you don't, it will follow the path of least resistance, and that is probably not the path you want it to take.

    ME2
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • sidney r. braysidney r. bray Member Posts: 26


    Mark-
    I simply piped it supply coming down and feeding into the bottom of the cast iron and a return coming out of the oppostite side which then becomes the supply to the next radiator and so forth until the loop is completed back to the boiler...the only deviation is the first radiator coming from the boiler on the supply side is up on the main level (4'cast iron bsbd) which is the first in the loop of radiators, the balance (4 of them) are cast iron in the basement...years ago I had done a two pipe setup but because I couldn't get heat I thought with too many tees I wasn't getting adequate flow (erroneous probably but all I could think of at the time) so therefore I went to a simpler one pipe loop design, still no success. Must I re-pipe and add the mono-flow tees too? I have boiler drain valves set up (high up along the floor joists)between each radiator to take air out too, however that doesn't work because it's always water coming out and every time I let water out the system I'm sure is letting more air in with the new water coming in. I was hoping for a simple solution, the mono-flow tees are $16.34 each for 1"x1"x3/4" and the way I read it I would need 9 of these, two for each bsmt radiator and one for the first radiator on the main level, plus a bunch of 3/4" copper pipe to go between the tees.
  • sidney r. braysidney r. bray Member Posts: 26


    Mark-
    I simply piped it supply coming down and feeding into the bottom of the cast iron and a return coming out of the oppostite side which then becomes the supply to the next radiator and so forth until the loop is completed back to the boiler...the only deviation is the first radiator coming from the boiler on the supply side is up on the main level (4'cast iron bsbd) which is the first in the loop of radiators, the balance (4 of them) are cast iron in the basement...years ago I had done a two pipe setup but because I couldn't get heat I thought with too many tees I wasn't getting adequate flow (erroneous probably but all I could think of at the time) so therefore I went to a simpler one pipe loop design, still no success. Must I re-pipe and add the mono-flow tees too? I have boiler drain valves set up (high up along the floor joists)between each radiator to take air out too, however that doesn't work because it's always water coming out and every time I let water out the system I'm sure is letting more air in with the new water coming in. I was hoping for a simple solution, the mono-flow tees are $16.34 each for 1"x1"x3/4" and the way I read it I would need 9 of these, two for each bsmt radiator and one for the first radiator on the main level, plus a bunch of 3/4" copper pipe to go between the tees.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Got drawings and pictures???

    I'm thinking what I'm thinking is not the same thing you're thinking.

    If you could generate a simple drawing, and maybe some digital pictures, we will be able to solve your problem much faster.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark CustisMark Custis Member Posts: 539
    The high cost of copper

    Given that the scrap prices are down one would think the shelf prices would be coming down too, so I feel your pain.

    What is the tempurature set point on the auqastat?

    I might given your descriptions consider, going with a manifold system with individually adjustable loops to each heat emitter. You own the pump so all you need is a few rolls of pex-al-pex or pex a, and the manifold.

    Caleffi's Idronics #4 will show you how.
  • sidney r. braysidney r. bray Member Posts: 26


    Aqua Stat is set @ 180 degrees. With the exception of the last radiator in the loop all of them are piped in at the bottom on both sides. The last one has the supply on the bottom and a return at the top. Yes each radiator has a coin vent at the top plus the 90 deg elbow with a coin vent above each radiator near the floor joists at the highest point..all produce no air just water. I'll have to look into Caleffi's Idronics #4, haven't heard of it before. Don't have a way to send you a drawing over the internet Mark, but I have a sketch I could fax or mail you if you want to give me either address. Thanks guys.
  • Mark EathertonMark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    FAX

    720-479-9313

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • KaraKara Member Posts: 36
    heating problem

    Hi eveyone! I need your help with my heating problem. It seems that where i live my radiators heat up but the pipes remain cold during this cold period. I thought that bleeding the radiators would remedy the problems (maybe there was air in the system i thought) with the pipes so that they would heat up just like the radiators do. So far the pipes are still cold and yes the radiators do heat up well.I do not know what the problem is?
    Could the problem be in the boiler. Maybe the water pressure coming is not strong enough to reach me in the third floor? Or maybe none of these is the problem? Again i live in an apartment building and only the third floor is the problem with this since the other tenant below me don't have this situation. Thanks.
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