for the pros!

kpc_46

RICK_64

for the pros!

Hey guys.......I've got another question for the pros......
you guys have taught me a lot and i figured this is the best place for this kind of advice........here's the ????:
I have a 2 family house,the water heater(2 yrs old,gas) is 50 gal....and is just not providing enough hot h2o......
should I scrap this one and replace with a larger capacity
or...install say a 30 gal next to it and twin them?
I'd appreciate any pros and cons.......... thanks again!

Timco

What type of shower head do you have (GPM)? Have you cleaned it lately? does it crackle when you take a bit of water out of it? There is a water heater site that has been referenced here before but I do not remember what it was..

Tim

Alan(OnVacationInOregon)Forbes

That's a

good question. Adding a 30, 40 or 50 gallon water heater in parallel would certainly solve the problem; you would need to make sure there is enough gas and flue capacity for the additional unit.

The regulator companies suggest installing a tempering valve and turning the water heater thermostat all the way up; in theory, that works, but I always worry about scalding if the tempering valve fails even though some manufacturers say the unit fails in the open (all cold) position.

Then there are always the sure-fire instantaneous "flash" water heaters (Takagi, Rinnai, Noritz, etc.) that offer unlimited hot water.

Brad White_203

A 50 gallon

heater serving two families? I take it that the utilities are shared (built in to the rent).

If the piping network can be demonstrated to be separate, I would get another heater (at least a 40) and pipe it in a dedicated way to that other unit.

Another tack is to buy a coil booster (element-free storage tank such as made by HTP, the Super-Stor folks). A Taco 006B bronze shuttle pump will charge that off the primary heater. It will work it more but any issue of gas or venting capacity is removed.


Here is another question: Was this noticed "all of a sudden"? Or just a gradual reduction over time? If a sudden drop in capacity, I would suspect a cracked or disconnected dip tube. One can start with a full, hot tank then when a shower starts, the cold water side-steps right to the hot water outlet instead if being forced down to the bottom of the tank.

This may not be your situation, but just one to watch out for.

Mark Eatherton

Match demand...

and before you can match demand, you are going to have to first determine what the demand consists of. Is it simultaneous shower loads, compounded by machine loads (dish and clothes washers)? Is it a LARGE single dump load compounded by simultaneous or back to back shower loads...

Once you figure out what your loads are, you can match them with storage (dump load) and or recovery capacity.

You have to ask the consumer what their expectations are, and tell them to be reasonable. Having 5 shower heads running al at the same time is rediculous. Have some load diversity, will ya :-) If they DEMAND that you be able to cover all five running at the same time, then the golden rule kicks in.

"Those that have the gold, make the rules."

Tell them to get their check book ready for pocket shock.

And by all means, consider alternative energy whenever possible.


Get back to us once you've determined load factors and we can help you configure a system that will efficiently meet the consumers wishes, wants and needs.


ME

Brad White_203

Better Answer, ME

You put more thought into it than I did.. I should know better

True, know thine load. That said, for average family usage, it is rare that a 40 gallon heater will not serve well and a 50 gallon serve better.

I like them not for simplicity and hardly for efficiency, because there is a limit to them :P

Endless hot water begets waste, IMHO... our Super-Stor and Vitodens combination requires that I install a manual valve to the pre-teen's shower... Shhhhhhh.

Rich L.

Two smaller ones

I would add another one to the existing 50 rather than scrap this for a larger unit. Biggest reasons, cost and redundancy. Two smaller are most likely going to be cheaper than one larger. If you have two and one fails, there is a second to fall back on.

I'm personally not a big fan of the tankless models although some love them. If you go that route figure in some annual maintenance of the unit.

GREG LAUER

be careful

checking the shower heads first is a great idea. If you choose to tandum 2 together be sure the piping runs are equal to the main outlet or you just wasted your time.

RICK_64

another ?

What is meant by "the piping runs being equal to the main outlet"?

As far as the demand factor,it consists of mainly simultaneous shower loads(there are only 2 showers in total)
compounded by an occasional washing machine load.
Thanks to all who answered!

Mark Eatherton

We agree on that Brad...

IN fact, my brother, who makes a living installing thankless water heaters, sez in many cases with teens, the consumers gas bill goes UP, not down, and it is as you said, teen wasting syndrome.

He and I have had numerous discussions whereby of the shower lasts for more than 10 minutes, an automatic program kicks in, lowering the thankless' set point until it is shut off. Shutting the thankless off resets the timer.

Could be a patent in there somewhere :-)

Remember me in your will. ;-)

ME

Mark Eatherton

How many?

How many simultaneous showers, at what flow rate and how large of a washing machine?

I think what Greg L was trying to get at is that the flow through the water heaters has to be equal, or the extra heater won't help much. I'd recommend they be piped parallel reverse return so they both see equal draw and equal output. Even that will only work right if both heaters are the same size (BTUH and Gallons).

ME