low-E insulation

Unknown

Used it for insulating steam pipes, works great especially if you leave an air space between it and the pipe. Used the type that was aluminum coated both sides.

radmix

Low-E insulation

I have a project where the contractor is a low-E dealer and wanted to insulate with low-E alone. Is there any independent studies to this product. I have been on healthy heating.com and read about bubble foil bubble insulation. The contractor claims his product is different.

rich pickering

Took a quick look at low-e and they show the siding directly over the issulation. You might want to check out the Reflective Manufacturers Association for details.

http://www.rimainternational.org/handbook/HandbookAll0504.pdf

Page 6 I think.

Larry Weingarten

Radiant barriers..

... and insulation are two different beasts. I'm not familiar with "Low-E" except as a term meaning low emissivity. Personally, I'd use lots of insulation and good air sealing if the application is in the shell of the building.

Dan has written about Clarence Mills, who tried building a home strictly with radiant barrier and no insulation. It was a failure.

Yours, Larry

Hollis

I'm sure there is somewhere but just my 2 cents on the matter, I have tried, really tried to get reflective insulation to work well and I really really wish it did. I have used the bubble 2 sided stuff from a few different companies, I have used the 4 ply stuff.

I have tried the "so called" high tech ceramic coatings like Supertherm and the nano stuff (Nansulate) in the inside of all exterior surfaces. Even tried Hi IF wallpaper. None amounted to much of anything. (compared to identical rental units using the same windows and electric heat. these were unoccupied units with electric heat, set at same temp with very minimal visits during a cold winter's month. The electrical bill were close enough to say they were the same. Using an Infrared camera we could see little difference (this was a GOOD camera used by a well trained tech, which makes me wonder how they are putting up pics on web sites showing the opposit of what we found...

Tacking up temporarly as an experiment, just a thin closed cell strene of only (Owens Corning pink and only 1.5R foundation fan material) on exterior facing walls made much more of a difference. I once tried these things in a 3'X3' box using all the aforementioned with a pretty good 110v thermostat set at 72 degrees and sometimes hooked to a light bulb as the heat source and other times to an aquarium heater and measured the power useage. Found the same.

Also coated an aluminum soda can with Supertherm and Nansulate with 1 to 7 coats of each and sealed it very with a good thermoprobe inside. The heat rise in the Summers sun was no different than a can painted with a good latex white.
Then bringing these hot cans in, they all seem to cool at the same rate in a freezer. I'm sure not all that scientific for publishing, but it was enough to convince me that these things don't work all that well (BTW I tried several ceramic coatings from different companies)

I would expect the bubble wrap would definitely work better if I had wrapped the cans in it, but I think mostly from the air space and the fact that the first surface (heat phase) was held off the aluminum can surface to cut down on conduction, and surely the aluminum shiny coating of the bubble stuff would reflect some heat.
However I would think that if you were to coat that alum can with 1/4-3/8 of urethane foam, you would see much more benefit. think of a double stacked (even that just a cheap pressed styrene coffee cup) You can pour boiling hot water into it and barely feel it get warm. Put a probe in that and glue seal the top with 1" of closed cell styrene or urethane. Note how long it stays warm!

Sometime I would like to test Aerogel in my "test bix" however due to cost it wouldn't be too practical to use it at this time.

Andrew Hagen_2

Insulation

I would insist on high-R insulation and low-E glass.

Gordy

Insulation vs reflective coatings

All ANY sort of insulation does is SLOW the transmission of hot/cold. From CONDUCTION !!

Reflective materials simply filters energy of the reflective sort. From EMMITANCE.

There is no substitute for a good insulator from conduction.

Gordy

Perry_5

Mirror insulation actually works very well...

Mirror insulation actually works very well in its right environment.

The concept of installing a series of spaced highly reflective surfaces for insulation works very well (you need a minimum of 3 plates, and 2 gaps, for it to work if the gaps are air or gas filled). It is typically constructed from a highly polished metal (SS, AL, Nickle, etc - chrome platting is sometimes used).

The problem is that it is very costly to build it (how do you maintain the spacings between the plates - and support multiple layers of it - without significantly affecting its insulation ability).

The result is that you only see this type of insulation used where it is cheaper than just using a more conventional form of insulation. The most common industrial uses are for cryogenic tanks and nuclear reactor vessels (where prefabbed Mirror insulation sections can be quickly removed and quickly reinstalled allowing for vessel inspections with minimal radiation exposure and minimal time impact on a refueling outage).

On a small scale - a thermos bottle is a case of mirror insulation. They can get away with 2 surfaces because the evacuate the air and create a vacuum (no convection between the surfaces); but do not discount the effect of the low E mirror on both surfaces.

In theory it would work well for even normal temperature applications such as house insulation. Its just so cheaper to use conventional bulk insulating materials (fiberglass, styrene, etc).

Perry

Gordy

Thermos bottles and Thermopanes

Yes it does work Perry. But lets get real for Residential, and commercial applications.

These are not under the strict scrutiny as nuclear/industrial applications where serious consequences are the end result do to inferior insulation.

Gordy

alang

Super Therm comments by Hollis

My guess is you really didn't conduct these little experiments like you claim to have done. You are absolutely right, it would not be published as you need to be a certified heat transfer engineer. Who would do such a thing? Purchasing all of these different products and apply them to all of those rental units? No one is that stupid to purchase new products without researching it first. If you worked for me I would fire you.

I have and still do use ceramic coatings from Superior Products Int. II, including Super Therm for almost 10 years now. There is no way anyone can purchase these products from the manufacturer without going through a distributor. The distributor must then get involved in your project in every way to ensure you are getting the proper solution for a given problem. They are then required to forward filled documents on your project to the manufacturer who will review it for approval. The manufacturer has spared no money in R&D as you will find they have numerous certifications on their products from around the world including ASTM. In case you don't know, the ASTM certifications are what every level of government in North America requires you to provide especially when you are introducing new technologies. This is where you will find a vast difference with the "other" ceramic products you claim to have also used. They do not have the testing and certifications to support their claims. Whenever we have competed against companies with these other products we simply say we have the testing do they? This is the main reason why we get these jobs. When dealing with beurocrats there is no way around the red tape, period.