Is This A Wet Steam Problem?

FJL

Thanks. I've used a different sized air valve on one rad and both sizes wheeze. This problem occurs on rads connected to different risers, some connected to the main in the basement, and one connected to a horizontal supply line underneath my floor.

As for pressure, my current settings are: main = 1 psi, with a subtractive differential of 12 ounces. How much lower do you think I can go?

I live in a four unit, four floor apt building.

Thanks again.

FJL

Wet Wheeze/Hiss Sound From Air Valve

I have one pipe steam. I've been noticing that the air valves on my radiators make a wet wheeze/hiss sound. This symptom exists after the rad has had a chance to get hot. So when the boiler comes on after a set back, the air valves are silent as the rad heats up. When the rads get about 50%-60% hot, they begin to wheeze/hiss. This seems to be a problem for the bigger rads.

From reading this board, I believe that wheezing/hissing air valves means that the mains and the risers need more venting, but is a wet wheeze a more complicated problem? The air valves don't spit water (although I've seen a tiny bit of moisture collect on one air valve for one rad). I've got Gorton valves on all of the rads.

Thanks.

Happy New Year.

nicholas bonham-carter

wheezer

could there be a sag somewhere, trapping a puddle in the supply area. the pipe might start out clear, but as condensate builds up the the restriction becomes more pronounced. sometimes the radiators "pant" as air tries to get through.

by all means check your vents, and maybe increase their capacity. i don't think you can have too much venting, or too loooooow a pressure.

happy new year!

Frank_63

Installed New Vents

Over the weekend, I installed new Gorton vents on four of my five radiators. The old vents were all Gorton 6. I put new Gorton 4s on three of the rads, and a new Gorton 5 on the another. None of those vents hiss or sound like there is moisture in them, and the rads get fully hot. The one rad that still has one of the Gorton 6 valves installed two heating seasons ago still hisses in a way that sounds a like there is a bit of moisture in there, but no moisture is visible.

Maybe this is related to the hissing issue. The last two weeks that I've drained the boiler to get rid of the muddy water, I've noticed that the water has been getting cleaner. This Sunday, for the first time, I got to see clear water after draining it, and the sight glass is clear, even when the boiler is running. When I drain the boiler, the sight glass will get a bit muddy, but then it seems to clear up.

*** Actually, I'm noticing that the Gorton 5 is hissing a bit as well, so I guess it is just that the hissing is less noticeable with a smaller vent.

nicholas bonham-carter

wheezer

the main vents on the main steam lines are the most important, in your situation. the radiator vents can only handle the air removal [and vacuum relief] in the riser pipe from main to radiator. if you keep increasing your main venting, you will find the system becomes almost completely silent. as it goes now, any air not removed by the main vents is going out your radiators.

i think you could say that whenever you hear noise of any kind in 1-pipe steam, the fuel company hears the sound of the cash-register ringing!--nbc

FJL

My Main Venting Is . . .

I've posted the main venting that I have for the size main pipe that I've had in this thread (http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=431535&_#Message431535), and you seemed to think I had adequate venting of the main. Maybe the risers need more venting? I suppose I can always replace a Gorton 1 main vent with a Gorton 2. Maybe the Hoffman needs to be replaced? How does one tell if a vent needs to be replaced?

nicholas bonham-carter

vents

when i read your earlier post, i realise now that you have 4 floors of radiators, and possibly you are the only one who has changed vents on his radiators. that would mean that your radiator vents are doing the lions share of venting for each riser. also remember that the vents must not only handle the removal of air, but also the relief of vacuum at shut down,[your wheezing sounds like vacuum relief].

i have now come to the conclusion that the gorton website, with its vent selection guide is pretty accurate. their suggestion is putting big vents on the mains [maybe you can never over-vent], and the big radiator vents on the top floor, with smaller vents as the radiators get closer to basement level. if it's an old bldg, then the height of the top floor risers could contain a considerable amount of air to remove. i realise that it is difficult to get everyone to agree to pay more for additions to the system, when they feel no cold. maybe a good plan would be to remove the thermostat to a different location [such as your well-vented unit]. this would cause them to feel any lack of radiator venting they may have, and make them realize the necessity of proper maintainance. now after changing my own vents on the 3rd floor following the gorton principles, my 54 radiators have become even more silent, and although i haven't got a way of measuring run-time, i suspect it is reduced.--nbc

FJL

Riser Vents

Just so you understand my set up in case I did not explain it clear enough. Each of the five risers that feed the top three floors has its own venting. Each riser has two Gorton #1 vents. These vents are at the top of the risers in the third floor apt. The risers stop when they get to the radiator on the top floor. The riser does not extend into the fourth floor apartment past the radiators for that apt. These vents are on a tree.

I've thought about trying to figure out how much air has to be vented from each riser, to see if I've got sufficient venting, but the pipe size decreases as the riser ascends, making it hard for me to know for sure what the size of the piping is for pipes below me in the wall. I don't know what size vents were installed in the two apartments above me, but I guess it is time to find out.

Frank_63

Top Floor Rad Vents . . .

are all Gorton D. Resident also says that the radiator in her bedroom also hisses, along with one in her living room.

How does the steam decide where to go once it gets to the top of the riser? Does it next head into all of the rads equally, but faster into the rads with the larger vents?

nicholas bonham-carter

hissing vents

is there hissing from the riser vents also? is the hissing air or steam? another words, are the vents hot or cold during the hissing?--nbc

FJL

Hissing

I don't know if the riser vents are hissing. I don't live in that apt, and the resident hasn't said anything about hissing vents.

In my apt, the valves that hiss are hot, but I don't think they are emitting steam. I purchased three new Gorton 4 vavles over the weekend and installed them on 3 of my rads. I have not noticed that they hiss, but they do get hot.

Are the vavles not supposed to get hot? I just assumed that they did. I'll check tonight to make sure what is happening with mine.

LOL, I will really feel like a dope, and need to apologize for wasting everybody's time, if my problem is that all of my vents just need to be replaced with new ones. Mine were only one year old before this heating season.

jOhn_225

NBC, can you briefly elaborate on the vent temperature and heating.

If cold hiss, what does it mean?
if hot hiss, what does that mean?

Vents are suppose to be the last to heat in a steam radiator correcT?

Thanks!!

Frank_63

I Feel Really Stupid

The rads with the new Gorton 4 vents don't seem to hiss. Now I'm thinking that one of the rads with an old vent is emmitting steam, and that is the reason for the hissing. I'll get a new one for that rad and see if the hissing stops. What a dope I am. The good thing is that the smaller valves have greatly reduced the overheating of my apt, so something good did come out of this.

nicholas bonham-carter

HOT'N COLD VENTS

if the vents are hot'n hissing, they are leaking a bit of steam. if they are cold'n hissing, then they are relieving the vacuum. sometimes vacuum relief put a greater task on the main vents than air removal.--nbc

Frank_63

Hot and Don't Hiss OK?

What about valves that are hot and don't hiss or don't appear to hiss? Are you saying that a properly working valve doesn't get hot? Or might one reason a valve is hot and hissing be that there is not enough venting elsewhere in the system? In other words, how do I know if I have bad valves or not enough venting?