A question for homeowners (Dan H.)

Perry_5

Which company normally meets its time estimates on when it gets there?

For home service on my house I am more likely to tend to company 1 as it means time off work for me. But, a major factor is which company can I count on actually showing up and getting the job done in their estimated schedule? I understand emergencies do come up and sometimes they can't make it. But if I schedule as their first or 2nd appointment of the day (which I usually do) and they have regulat problems meeting that.... Then I don't care how long they will actually take to do the job - they are to unreilable and will likely waste a lot of my time.

Perry

DanHolohan

Let's say

you have a choice between two heating companies. Company One will get the job done in a couple of days. Company Two will get the job done in one day, but charges a premium for this.

All else being equal, which company would you prefer?

Dan_15

I guess I tend to look at it in the converse--Company Two is charging market rates to get the job done in an industry standard time using reasonable efforts, while Company One is offering to discount for taking longer than industry standard. If all else is equal, I would wonder why Company One can't get it together to do the job in the same time as Company Two. Maybe I need more specific information about what the job entails.

rogGoarfsoony

let's say

It depends. If it's an emergency,and it's cold out, I'd pay the premium. Otherwise, I'd go with the two day install. "Couple of days" often turns out to be more than two.

radiconnection

I'd want the tech who knows what he is doing, is allowed the time and means to do it right, does the job the best it can be, and cares enought to take the time to fuss about what needs to be fussed over. Whether he can't carry enough supplies to service every possible scenerio he runs into is entirely secondary. Oh, and the man should be honest and trustworthy. Price commenserate with service.

Of course this is the difference between someone who knows what's in his cellar, versus the average HO.

klaus

It depends.

It would depend on what it was. And how it may or may not inconvenience me at the time. My current heating guy has been installing my boiler for about nine months and has still not finished. Not that I am happy about it but that is often what homeowners go through when they "call a pro"

Gordy

What he said

I like Rolands answer, with all other things being equal.

Would like to add that usually the condensed job will end up a bit less quality. With overtime comes a lesser productivity rate.


Gordy

eluv8

Show me that you understand steam heat

Last year I called at least a couple of dozen businesses (Chicago area) looking for someone to service our neglected one-pipe system. I always asked to speak directly to the steam pro and when I described the issues, I included something about the need to "balance the system."

I heard "steam systems balance themselves" so often that I posted a question here to see if I was using the phrase incorrectly or if the process might be called something different in the midwest. Long story short--the one business that seemed to truly understand steam heat wasn't accepting new clients. So, we went with a local business recommended by someone in the neighborhood and ended up with a guy who corrected me when I referred to our one-pipe system. He said that we didn't have a one-pipe system, that it's "two-pipe--supply and return."

An ad that included something like "5 misconceptions about steam heat" or "Top 10 indications that your heating guy doesn't know steam" would certainly get my attention.

r. perry

hvac co. #1 or #2

My first choice would be the lower price. I'm not too concerned about the time it takes. Most important issue is that it's done right, hopefully the first time.

Bob Burnham

Depends

We had one full bathroom at the time and hired Bath Fitters to install the new tub & shower over the existing one. They were done in 8 hours and we paid a premium price.

That said, if it's freezing cold out and my system crashes I am paying to get it done now. If not the couple of days schedule may work. As I said - It depends....

bill z

apples to apples i would go to the hilton for a couple days if money diff worth it

David Nadle

Can I dispute the premise of the question?

That is, "all else being equal." It is so hard to find one competent steam guy, I can't even fathom finding two to compare. Except here on the Wall of course.

To me, a promise kept that work will be done to a high standard, both mechanically and ethically, is much more valuable than a promise kept to complete work in a certain time. I'll pay a premium for the guy I can trust.

NShak

Company Decisions

TIME IS PRECIOUS. Mine AND Yours.

But, I'll sacrifice the time for a company...
1) That provides courteous & intelligent support and techs who are willing to teach me more about my system and help me be a better homeowner. Then I can avoid wasting THEIR precious time with useless calls.
2) That I can trust for timely follow-up of an occassional non-emergency, and immediate follow-up (same day) for the (hopefully) rare significant issue during the winter months.

Ultimately, I hope to establish a positive working friendship with my Heating Specialists (like an ideal patient-doctor relationship). I need to have confidence that my specialist is intelligent, courteous, professional, thoughtful, available for rare emergencies, and overall, is doing the best that he/she can do to provide the best care for me (and my family). In that case, I'll wait longer for the better care.

Back to Mr. Broome's original issue of advertising/marketing... Most homeowners (informal sample of my friends & family w/ steam systems) don't know their **** from their elbow when it comes to their boiler, steam system (or other heating system), or even what's in their basement!!! And most are probably doing little to no maintenance on their systems. But homeowners do talk to each other and ask for suggestions on whom to call when "x or y" needs fixing.

I think most uneducated homeowners don't feel confident making assessments on a "we're better than the other guy" advertisement. They're rarely looking at their water levels, forget about proper pressuretrol settings.... But, I think they do will respond to a short (1 page) mailer stated something like:

1) Are you aware that a well maintained heating system can save you money AND maybe your life?
2) Carbon Monoxide is a silent, odorless killer. All heating systems should have annual maintenance. When was the last maintenance on your heating system? All homes should have CO detectors. Does yours?
3) We can do most jobs in one visit.
4) We're available 24/7 for emergencies during the winter months; a tech will be there the same day or night. (Families like mine, love this POMG... piece of mind, guaranteed)
5) Call for an annual maitenance contract or check our website; first time customers get x% off their first year's contract.

Honest & Straight-Forward.

I'd respond to this. I think many others would too.

Clueless homeowners are afraid of paying top $$$ for work they don't understand.

Kind of like their hesitation sending their car to the auto-shop... they're afraid of getting ripped off!

Good luck.

CC.Rob_11

not sure about the question

Don't know where you're headed with this question, so it's hard to evaluate whether it's a good/reasonable question. Might need more elaboration.

It sounds like you're asking if I would choose a company that can do a non-emergency job in two days over a company that can do the same non-emergency job in one day, but has a surcharge to do so.

Regardless of the work to be done, the answer is "it depends."

If this is a question about the value of _my_ time, the answer is, "it depends." For example, would I pay a premium to have to only take one day, or part of a day, off work to be around for the contractor? Well, if I have a good relationship with a contractor (which I do, and value highly), I'll just leave them a key. If they take two days, fine. I'm still at work making money to pay them. They get the job done right.

For someone who has to choose between the two contractors solely on the basis of the value of their time, other factors might become important. For example...

If the question is about the value of getting the work done in one day vs. two, regardless of the value of my time, then it still depends. Will the work be truly equivalent? If so, what is the price difference? Would the single day be 8 hr at the regular rate, plus 8 more at time and a half? Or whatever the surcharge is. I'd have to figure whether paying the surcharge benefits me in some way (e.g., being able to spend more time at work).

As others have pointed out, quality of the work done matters. But if you have no prior experience with the contractor, or don't know enough about the work being done to know whether it's any good, that could be difficult to judge.

And of course you're getting biased feedback here. Most of the HO's here are probably better educated about home heating than your average American.

DanHolohan

Thanks

In a tread below ("Dan"), a contractor friend is asking for help with an ad. I've been working with him to boil down the key points that he feels his company provides that others don't. He has settled on the fact that 90% of the time, they get the job done in one day. They are usually more expensive than the competition because of this. I wondered whether an ad with this sort of focus would appeal to homeowners, and that's why I asked it in this thread. We're testing the concept.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ted Robinson

Which Contractor to choose?

If only I had hot water . . .. . .
But I have one-pipe steam.
I had the boiler change out done in the warm weather, time ws not an issue.
Finding a contractor who Really understood steam was my problem.
I chose the guy who seemed to most respect my time (he was not the lowest price), and thanks to this Site, I was able to tell him how to engineer the installation. But if I wasn't educated I am unsure what the install would have looked like.

don_185

What market.

I would think if one was marketing to more of commerical industrial market that this would be a big issue..that being time.
After all if they are down for any amount of time they stand to lose more money.

When dealing with ho its not how long it will take but,how much.
Take a call and send a guy who has 30 years experience,that
has the right tools to trouble shoot and is quick about doing so.It takes him 1 1/2 hours to get the job done.
You hand the customer the bill.They are shock.They ask why it cost so much and you were only here for so little time.

Now take that same customer and you send a guy out that only been in the trade for 2 years and it take him 5 hours to do the same job and you hand the customer the same bill.
Do you think you would get the same complaint?

No, you will not.Why? Because the customer assume they got more for their money being the tech was at the home for so long.

When it comes to adds, it has to have the whats in it for me factor.

Placing a add that it will cost the customer more for less time will not go over well.
You would have better results with saying i'll give you a free two year maintence contract if it take us longer to do the job or I'll give you 2% discount for going over the alotted time.

Steve_95

Answer #1

I would hire MADDOG and let him do it right regardless of time.
Answer #2
But if I had to answer your question I would hire the 2 day guy. My thinking being (assuming it's a new boiler install) it's probably more realistic to take 2 days, and do it right.
Being the skeptic that I am I would wonder what happens to the premium I paid if it turned out to take more than a day for the first guy. Hope this makes sense, if not, see answer #1.
Happy and Health to all the wonderful people on this site, starting with the host.

David Nadle

The Fairsley Difference

Speaking of advertising and differentiation from your competition, the following sketch from HBO's "Mr. Show" might entertain and inform:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP4yX2rkpBc

mark ransley

It would depend on outside temperature, 50f is of no issue,
-10f everything and some pipes could freeze.

brad_23

It's not the time...

As a homeowner, my gut reaction to an ad that says he gets jobs done quicker than his competitors makes me wonder if he rushes his jobs.

I'd pay a premium for a company that gets the job done properly in a reasonable amount of time. I would respond well to a pitch that went a little like this: "We charge a little more than our competitors because we do our work carefully and we treat your home like its our home."

Again, my opinion is I don't want some guy installing a boiler (for example) where he feels like he needs to rush the job to get it done in the fastest time. In other words, I'd pay a premium for quality.

D107

2 days if required for optimum results

In the last install I saw, everything was installed new:
oil tank, chimney liner, boiler/near boiler piping, controls, HWH, and removal of old tank, boiler, HW HX, HW tank.

Took two days, was very well done, and still they could have used more time to bleed the old 50s convectors, some of which had either a frozen bleeder vent or no vent at all.

I also saw the kind of stress the installer (who was a worker for the company not an owner) had to deal with as they fought the clock and how exacting an engineering and physical task it was. (He didn't prepare any drawings, just had the design in his head; somehow everything came out plumb, level and organized.) This in addition to constantly double-checking his work, supervising his co-worker, calling the boiler co. techs to verify any updates to combustion and flue settings and fending off phone calls from the company telling him to hurry up so he can get to a service call that same day.

Not a job I'd ever want to rush anyone on. But of course these answers you're getting are skewed, being on the Wall.

Thanks,

David

joe_94

Offer stand-by heat

Cold equals fear of discomfort and worse.
Anxious folk would like an offer [where feasible] of a standby heat plan so that the professional can take the time to do it perfectly. Just a thought.

joe_94

Offer stand-by heat

Cold equals fear of discomfort and worse.
Anxious folk would like an offer [where feasible] of a standby heat plan so that the professional can take the time to do it perfectly. Just a thought.

Baltimore/Maine Doug_4

Ignoring all other factors,

a higher price for one day is not something that draws me.

Showing up when you said you would, having all the stuff you need, being reasonably accurate in dollars and fixing my problem are more important.

During the big project on my bank building, I recall one of many instances where 2 weeks in advance I booked 2 guys for 2 days with the P & H contractor. Day came and no one showed up and no call. So I finally called and listened to a bunch of excuses. In this case if I knew that company #2 would send one guy and do the same job in one day and charge me more I would say I will have coffee on and what do you want for lunch.

In Baltimore in dealing with my house and my two boy's houses, your question would not even be considered. Finding competent companies that actually have test gear and know what is used for is the issue, to this day. So in a web ad, tell me you show up when you say you will, have all the appropriate latest test gear to insure high efficiency, longer product life and max in safety of operation.

Now my attorney son would pick the one day guy if I was not available to be at his house.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Mad Dog_2

Being a business owner may bias my answer...but

Companies that "bang it out" in one day do so by loading the job up with men and "getting it done" one way or another in one day. The little details and nuances get overlooked in the essence of saving time. That being said, an exceptional team - like Ron Jrs can make it work. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Rollie Peck_3

Question for homeowners

I opted for the contractor who was more knowledgeable about
hot water heat, even though he wasn't the lowest bidder. Have never regretted it.

Rollie Peck

Homeowner

Mitch_4

Interesting Question Dan

Personally, I am a one man shop, and I charge more than others, but I get the work. Why? I explain why I charge more than A1B2C3 heating...(mostly forced air here)

1- I invest in the proper tools, and have all parts needed for the install when I get there.
2- the price I Quote is IRON clad. You will not pay a penny more..if I missed something..that is my fault.
3- I go to training, I know the equipemtn inside and out
4- I believe in my work, and my product. Everything I sell has 5 year parts and labour included. No extra charge.


Essentially you are paying for my experise, the proper tools, training and knowledge. and I guarantee you satisfaction. I usually do the heat loss, and here we have rebates for energy star products if you have an audit done.

I advise on savings, and rebates, and that money is theirs not mine. (Some of my cometetion take the rebate, the cust signs it over..but I think they raise their rates too)

Lets face it..you have to sell WHY you are more...1 day service is likely not enough to cut it in most homeowners eyes..

Chris M_2

Let's say

I would go with the company that takes more than one day. I'm the kind of guy that thinks the one day outfit will rush things along to get in and out in a day, and will therefore likely cut corners.

Jason_44

The one with the better reputation (and somebody who has read at least one or two of your books).

bb_10

I would...

look for the contractor that knew how to take care of me the best.

That would be by having certified technicains, proper tools, and respect for my house.

Amazingly when the "Cable Guy" came to my house a few years back he put on booties before he entered the hosue to ensure he did not get anything on my carpet. Nice touch. It must be since I still remember it.

To me it would be having someone show up when you say. I had work done a while ago and it went to the guy that showed up. I had called 3 contractors, and only 1 was interested enough to come look at my project.

David, I don't think getting the job done 90% of the time on the 1st call is your best selling point. To me it would be having a great reputation, qualtiy employees, and a professional experience. I would not want to take off more than one day if I did not need to, but I would rather ensure that the work is getting done right the first time.

just my 2 cents worth.

bb

DanHolohan

What's interesting about all of this

is how the contractor can see his strongest point as one thing, while the customers sees it as another.

This is why it always pays to think though the mind of the person to whom you're trying to sell.

What are his problems?

What are his concerns?

What's in it for him?

You have to keep asking those questions, and you have to ask the customer.

Good stuff.

Howie_6

Homeowner opinion

My plumber, who works alone, is often late, or has to reschedule. This hasn't been a problem for me, because I have a flexible schedule and can often work from home if I need to. He loves me because of this. He sometimes misses our appointments because he has to service emergency calls. He called me this morning because one of his customer's had a leak and they were leaving on vacation, so he came a few hours late. If he didn't do top notch work, I wouldn't use him.

Mark Custis

Howie

We are still building a customer base, (that job never ends or gets done.) Do you need a heating guy?

As a one man band, with a helper, my wife, we find we have to move appointments due to changes in customer priorities. With cell phones and emails it is easier than it used to be, however I plead guilty to inadvertantly abusing my fexable customers.

Thanks for your input I learned something today.

Now if I could learn the little code thingy at the bottom of this window....

Bill_110

I'd take either one. In my situation I signed a contract with a company in September. The owner verbally assured me they would get to me (it was a boiler installation) in a couple of weeks. After 4 weeks of not hearing anything from the guy I started calling up and asking what the story was. I had taken out the old defunct boiler myself, and had nothing to heat with. I was forced to buy a kerosene and some electric heaters in the interim. After making a complaint in person they deliver the boiler - after 6 weeks. After another few days a one day hurry up incompetent installation.

I would advise any NY state homeowner to look at the contract, it mentions a NY state law that the contractor must put in writing the estimated time of completion. This was blank on my contract. I just took the guy at his word. I figured why would he stall around - he's in business to make money and he probably wants to get paid as soon as possible. Big mistake. My feeling is that heating guys are used to dealing with people whose boiler is breaking down in the middle of winter, and they have them over a barrel. So if they have a situation where their customer is not desperate, they just wait, like in my case, till you are freezing and then stick you with a lousy installation, and expect you to swallow it.

I would insist on a "time is of the essence"type contract if I was doing it again. One where there was a stated penalty if the contractor didn't complete the job in a specified time. To have my near boiler piping redone according to the mfg's instructions I would definitely pay a premium to have it done in one day, to keep my family from freezing. Otherwise I will wait until spring.

dennis8

2 companies

I would not pa more to get the job done faster would pay more to have it done right.

Tom Elam

As a home owner I would go with company 1 as long as there was no risk of doing other damage to the house (frozen pipes ect..). A service tech repairing my A/C system on a hot July 4th told me about a customer that paid the $1000.00 premium to have thier A/C system replaced on a holiday. I told him that I would have taken that money and stayed at the Inner Harbor Omni Hotel for a couple of days.