Commissioned Salesmen

GW

That's a little rough to characterize sales people like that. I've noticed that this web site is catered towards the smaller shop with low overhead and no sales force. Other sites are the opposite.

I had a sales guy for a while and he was excellent, no goofy over sizing; I was actually fired up at some of the stuff he was downsizing.

He sold a job where we took out 3 boilers and 3 water heaters totaling 427,000 BTU (3 family home). We slid in a mod con at just over 100,000 BTU.

With that said, you're right, I've seen it too.

Gary

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Unknown

Does anyone notice

That most boilers that are way oversized are sold by commissioned salesmen from fuel companies and those oil sipping summer/winter coils are sold by fuel oil companies?
I wonder why customers dont see the conflict of interest there.

Jim Franklin

But it was such a good price, we couldn't refuse such a deal.

R Mannino

Service Contract

And with the FREE service contract how could I go wrong!

ed wallace

commisioned salesman

oil companies are no in biz to save the customer money its about pushing oil

JOHN_103

comm.sales

not all oil companies, our company looks at it as if we do not help you save on oil, someone else will and we lose a cust.we replace an average of 200 boilers per year and 90% of those are with indirect water heaters

Baltimore/Maine Doug_4

When I was looking at how

to heat my bank building, I asked a couple of oil companies and P & H folks for proposals. Included was removing a huge steamer with a stack as round as my middle.

Basically their numbers came in the size of the steamer. No regard for new doors, new windows, dig out the foundation and waterproof and insulate, dig up basement and insulate and pour new radiant slab.

I ended up buying HVAC-Calc. Measured just about every dimension there was in the building and used the time I was commuting from Maine to Philly to run the numbers. Weather and planes don't mix well.

I came up with less than half of the "others". Installed two little Biasi's. It is 2 degrees outside, ice is floating downriver and I am sitting at my desk near a panel rad in a 2500 sq.ft building with 14 ft ceilings running on an 80,000 net boiler. If the 2 zones kick on upstairs together the second boiler starts also. If my wife fills the huge 100 year old clawfoot tub the second boiler starts.

About a 40% reduction in fuel use. And we may get natural gas piped around town so an option might be to convert one or both boilers or do a MODCON!! How cool is that.

The best investment was getting HVAC-Calc and showing the oil boys the results. And that was when oil was cheap.

Jim Pompetti

Oil companies

For years I have the customer tell me "Two well know companies , have told me 150,000 btu's. You come and say 75,000 btu's ,why would I believe you . I give them the facts ,some see , some don't

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RonWHC

Over the years

I've had two professional engineers call asking for the rating of existing boilers in buildings we service. I asked both of them: "Why?" One said so he could size a new boiler. The other wouldn't answer. Didn't tell either one.

Fairly large mechanical we use for bigger jobs. Good @ reading drawings & doing the heavy lifting. Chatting w/ one of their estimators, I asked how he sized new boilers. No hesitation. "Off the old boiler."

Oil Companies are easy targets. Many deservedly so. But, they're not the only ones in the - bigger is better bucket.

Unknown

The Gas companies too

10 years ago I use to sub boilers from the local gas company. They had 4 salesmen who were paid commission on the boiler only, not the labor. The customers always got a few more sections than needed and I had to charge more for install because of the weight of the boiler. Now I bid against them and I go in with the right boiler and I hear...How can the gas company be wrong!
Now I just tell the people to stop and think about it. Why would you buy your boiler from the same people you buy your fuel from. That sometimes gets their attention.

Jim Erhardt_3

I hate to say it...

...but 90% of the companies that sell/install boilers don't know how to size them.

We just moved into an 18 year old home in NH that had a Burnham V8 package installed a few years ago. The house is a 2 story, 2200 square colonial with R-19 walls and R-30 in the ceiling (which I have just upgraded to R-50). I haven't done the calc yet but I figure 50 to 60k BTU at design temp.

The boiler? A Burnham V8H4 - 141,000 BTUs net IBR! She's a short-cycling queen, but sure does keep the lower level warm. How I wish I could have been there for the decision making process on that purchase by the former owners...

So, how low can I fire a 4-section Burnham V8?

GW

shame

That's a sad story. Good for you, bad for the heating industry

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