Uneven heating in condo building

mark ransley

Vents clog with minerals and can not open or not shut. mine do in my apt. Change venting in one apt and you do affect other apartments. Many owners like the free humidity. You are probably wasting 10- 20% by ignoring the Boiler. So everyone has extra money to waste. and the next gas bill all will conmplain and say maintenance isnt necessary or to expensive. The apartments with valves that dont close, the ones that will oppose you for the "free" humidity, are really costing you in more ways then you can realise.

McKern_2

Three story condo building, 6 identical units, one-pipe steam heat, thermostat located in the unit on the north side of the 1st floor.

The 3rd floor unit on the north side runs 3-5 degrees below the thermostat setting, despite the owner having installed veri-vents (opened to the largest setting) on most radiators. The 3rd floor on the south side of the building does not have this problem.

Could this be related to clogged vents in the first or second floor units on that side of the building?

Thank you for any words of wisdom.

Steamhead (in transit)

Are the steam mains

properly vented?

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McKern_2

Those vents definitely need to be replaced.*

I'm preparing a set of recommendations for the board and replacing the main vents is #1 on the list. (I got some advice regarding sizes from you all last year.)

My question is mostly to answer "if the problems heating 3N persist, the next step is..."

But, I admit to an ulterior motive, i.e., to get folks to think of the heating system as one unit. As things are, the radiators, valves, and vents--i.e., every thing that is physically within a unit--is the private property of unit owners and, according to our lawyer, unit owners may do/not do as they please with this equipment.

Other than those veri-valves on the third floor, I doubt that any other vents in this building have been replaced in the 8 years I've lived here--god knows who long before that.

Thanks

* Last year, I asked the guy we hired to clean the boiler if we should replace the main vents. He assured me that he could tell they were just fine because they were "hissing up a storm."

nicholas bonham-carter

condo probs

you are quite right to say that the system is the property of the cond regime, and that the maintainance is also the responsability of the C R as well. i suspect that if the vents are hissing up a storm, and that the unit you mentioned has changed vents that the system needs some attention. so who will do that relatively inexpensive work[in comparison to comfort and economy]? here is a list of what you should be doing very soon, while you can reap the economic benefits:

also if the unit mentioned has the forsight to install new vents--more power to them to get some more heat, before it goes up the chimney to be wasted forever!

1.check the vents.

2.check the pressure [low as possible 0-16 ounces -install vaporstat, and good low pressure gauge- gaugestore.com 0-5 psi].

3.check the burner for correct operation.even though the fuel prices have gone down, who knows for how long? in another post here, there are described projects which resulted in 10-33 % fuel use savings.there is an invitation to post your own savings--we will look for yours in a month.

McKern_2

Can a defective vent in one unit effect other units?

As things are, there is little incentive to make sure that vents are functioning properly. The people in 3N didn't change vents until AFTER raising the thermostat setting failed to improve things in their unit.

Say, for example, the vents on the radiator in the 3rd bedroom of the first and/or second floor units are clogged, but this isn't an issue to the owners who consider this an extra/unused room. Can this be a source of the problems heating the 3rd floor unit?

mark ransley

Vents shouldnt Hiss Up a Storm or they are not closing and wasting you money in many ways. Vents that dont close properly waste steam, you need cold water to replace that lost heated water. Cold makup water needs to be reheated and deposits sludge in the boiler you clean out every fall. Old building, contractors often remove radiators to carpet, sand floors, even plaster and dont ever re-Angle them right,I just found mine that way in cold apts and one was shimmed to raise the feed to the radiator. 8 yr old vents and nobody knows anything, kinda dumb. Gorton has 5 vent grades to balance systems. I would first be sure there is proper radiator angle, new main vents, proper Low boiler pressure, under 1 lb. Then write down every vent and its number you have and go around with a Raytek IR thermometer to see unbalanced temp, then you start to balance it, a long process. It could be simply a radiator is level or to large a vent in other apts is reducing heat or a main. Yesterday I was at an apt, the wall thermometer was messed with and I realised with a different thermometer I was heating this family to 78, now thats going to cost me here in Chicago where it -1 now, but of course nobody complains even when its 85, the windows get opened, but make it 69 and they complain. You system need a better tech and none ive met make them efficent, thats your job.

kpc_45

to add...

are all the mains and runouts insulated?

nicholas bonham-carter

condo probs

i am sure that the condo regime documents should list certain parts of the building as common property : main entrances/exit, roof, building walls/ floor structure, main utility service entrance/distribution, and heating system. therefore my practical opinion is that all owners should share in the maintainance cost in the same way they share the fuel bill!

also i would say that faulty vents on the 2nd floor rads will not affect those of the floor above, as the main vents do most of the work[ if they are operating].

if you can find a good steam pro to sort things out, the fuel savings could be seen next month.-nbc

McKern_2

I agree that the heating system should be a common element. However, our lawyer says that our current by-laws--which makes the valves, radiators, and vents private property--is the standard arrangement.

I figure the best way to change this is the get the other owners to see the problems associated with parsing the maintenance of the heating system among unit owners. However, it seems that what I thought might be a good example (i.e., that clogged vents in other units might be affecting the 3rd floor unit) is not true.

McKern_2

Part of the problem is that the association has no authority to check the condition of the vents, the angle of the radiators, and whether or not valves are either fully open or closed. I've been in units where the hissing from a radiator vent is an absolute distraction from conversation, but the unit owner simply shrugs it off.

However, it seems that the answer to my question regarding whether or not clogged vents in one unit might have an impact on the heating of a another unit is "no."

Thank you for your input.

nicholas bonham-carter

common area maintainance

the radiator vents will not effect another unit[ except as noted below], but the main vents[ which are common] will determin how well the system as a whole operates.


i suggest that you at least get consensus on checking the boiler pressure, and main vents. the vents on individual radiators can be left up to the other condo owners.


there is one part of the individual venting which could have an adverse effect: if one unit has vents which will not close, this will use more make-up water in the boiler, and shorten its life considerably.--nbc

McKern_2

If the vents aren't closing, wouldn't this result in water damage in the unit? i.e., there are covers on all the radiators, so wouldn't the steam condense on the inside of the cover and saturate the wood floor (at least), perhaps the ceiling below?

Thank you

nicholas bonham-carter

open vents

yes, open vents could cause water damage, not only to the flooring, but perhaps to the supporting joists underneath- especially if you have wet-steam.

yet another even more compelling reason to get them replaced.--nbc

Arnold

condo problems

nobody may take this seriously.... but all you have to do is put something foul smelling in the boiler water. All the difficult owners will come to the board begging to have have their radiator vents replaced.