Low Water Cutoff

NShak

Thanks a lot.

NShak

Have a Utica Peg-C 150k boiler.

Every morning before heading to work, I would check it and it would be overfilled (glass gauge filled over the top). Would drain it a proper level, then head to work.

So I started watching the boiler when it started for the evening cycle, and after an hour, the low-water cutoff would trigger when the glass gauge still had water 1/3 the way up. Then the automatic water feeder would fill it with warm water from the hot water tank.

So.... I disconnected the auto water feeder and went manual. Drained the boiler to an acceptable level on the glass gauge and watched it work. Same problem, except this time no auto water fill.

Question: Do I manually (bypass track) add water when this happens or do I let the condensate return to the boiler to turn off the low-cut off and restart the boiler again. Or something else?

Timco

The float in your LWCO needs to be cleaned, or the fill assy replaced on it. The LWCO lets water in as the boiler thinks it needs it, and dumps it into the condensate collection box, where it is pumped into the boiler when the cond box gets full. By taking the cond pump out of the picture, the LWCO is still filling the box, which is filling the boiler. I would not recommend turning off your water supply completely.

Tim

NShak

I've got a McDonnel & Miller SERIES PS-800 PROBE LWCO. Not sure how to go about cleaning it "or the fill assy replaced on it". I'm handy, so feel OK about doing it, but don't know how. Can you help me out, or tell me where I can get some instructions. Thanks.

Timco

I falsely assumed you had a float style LWCO. Does your fill water go directly to the condensate box? If so, you may need a new float assy for the box. If the float is bad, the fill will always be filling and flood the box first, then the boiler. Maybe some pictures? The LWCO tells the pump to send over more water if it is the type I am thinking of...

Tim

NShak

Thanks for the follow-up.
I'll take some pics tonight and post them.

I feel like a few more tweaks to the system, and we should be looking/feeling good in central NJ.

oil-2-4-6-gas

WAit a minute did you say it fills with warm water? you don't want to use anything besides cold water to feed the boiler

oil-2-4-6-gas

WAit a minute did you say it fills with warm water? you don't want to use anything besides cold water to feed the boiler

NShak

A line comes out the top of the hot water feeder then splits w/ one end going the the electric/auto-water feeder and the other end becomes a bypass pathway. The two lines then converge again and drop into the wet return.

The water that comes from the hot water tank is warm, not hot, but definitely not cold.

Is this wrong?

NShak

Here's some pics of my system.

Jack Smith

NShak

Just wondering when the system was installed? Do you have the installation manual? A couple observations- 1)Never use copper on the steam supplies, there is too much movement in the pipes from heating and cooling extremes 2)The steam header is all wrong starting right at the supply tappings. Also, if this was a professional install and was piped this way, I would check that the water feeder matches the lwco.

NShak

We bought the house, boiler set-up and all, in Spring 2007. I have the manual, dated 2001. The prior owners did almost no maintenance or repairs anywhere in the house, and if they did anything, they hire some low-ball knucklehead to jimmy-rig stuff. It's been a mess, but at least I'm learning as I go along.

I agree with the copper nonsense, but again, I "bought" this mess. Also, the steam headers clearly don't match up with the manual's diagram for "suggested piping for a single steam boiler heating system". Would this set-up cause wet-steam? Because some of my rads spit water, and a good amount!

Finally, I'm not familiar about how "I would check that the water feeder matches the lwco". Can you give me more info on this.

I'm still trying to figure out how to check that my LWCO is working properly and how to clean it out.

Thanks in advance.

Charlie from wmass

Yes this piping does cause wet steam. I would suggest getting a pro in for an idea on what it will take to get it running the way it should. CHeck out the posts under Sleepless in Boston.

Jack Smith

Wet steam

is definitely a product of the piping. It also most likely, but not definitely, the cause of the overfilling. Find somebody locally, reliable and knowledgeable in steam, get the near piping fixed, and worry about the lwco and overfeed after, if still necessary.

Steamhead (in transit)

The piping for your boiler

should look something like this. Notice how the system take-offs are off to the side, after both risers from the boiler drop into the header. This means any water that came up from the boiler wold simply roll down the equalizer and back to the boiler.

This is the kind of header a real pro would install.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

john elick

the automatic water feed valve in the background

is that m-m 101 auto feed connected to the lwco? if so, that is apparently your main problem with over feed. the probe lwco on the boiler starts out in "low water " when activated electrically. this causes a small quantity of water to go into the system on every cycle. if you install a m-m wf2u electronic water feed, this should take care of most of your problem on the feeding.

Edward A. (Ed) Carey_3

Disconnected the auto water feeder???

"So.... I disconnected the auto water feeder and went manual. Drained the boiler to an acceptable level on the glass gauge and watched it work. Same problem, except this time no auto water fill. "

Sooo,

If you disconnected the AWF and you are still overfeeding, your header pipes may not be correct, but they can not cause a boiler to overfill with an AWF that is shut off. Therefore, you header pipes would not cause this problem.

Also, if the AWF is not on and the boiler is still over filling, incompatibility with your existing LWCO may be an issue however it is also not the cause of this problem.

What did you do to “disconnect” the AWF?

Did you just disconnect the electric from the AWF and leave the manual water valves open, or did you actually shut off the valves that allow water to flow through the AWF?

Also, do you have a bypass valve on the AWF pipes? If so, how have you assured that the AWF valve and/or the bypass valve (manual water feed) are not leaking through and causing the overfill?

If you have truly disconnected the AWF, the AWF should have no ability to feed any water to the boiler.

Therefore, if you are still overfilling, the water is getting through the AWF seat or through the manual valve, to the boiler.

Ed Carey

Jack Smith

Ed

reread his original post again. That should answer your question.

Edward A. (Ed) Carey_3

Re-read

Jack,

I did re-read and I believe I misunderstood his statement "same problem"

It appears that he was not saying that the "same problem" was the boiler still overfilling with the AWF disconnected, (That is what my original post addressed).

I see now that his "Same problem" he is talking about is his water level dropping, and slow condensate return to the boiler, triggering the AWF.

My bad.

Think I can get away using the old and senile excuse??

Ed Carey

NShak

Thanks for you posts, Ed.

I may not have worded things great, but the problem was that the LWCO was triggering the auto water feeder to add water, even though the glass gauge was showing water about 1/3 way up the glass. Then when the condensate returned, the boiler was overfilled (water way above the top of the glass guage).

The bypass around the auto-feeder is not leaking- checked it. I disconnected the electrical input to the auto-feeder and closed the valve supplying water to it.

Now, ocassionally the LWCO will trigger when the boiler runs real long (I suspect I have 1 or 2 steam leaks in the bedrooms)...

So, my question was- should I manually add water at this point, or let the system slowly return condensate back to the boiler and let it refill and ultimately restart on it's own?

Another question- should the refill water be cold, warm, or hot? Mine is warm, as it has been tapped into the hot water tank. I think this is wrong.

Thanks for your time.
- NShak

Unknown

The root of your problems is your boiler piping and until that is addressed your system won't work properly. You need to get Dan's books (See "A Steamy Deal" at the bottom of this page) They will put the whole steam concept together for you and explain what exactly your system needs to have done to it. You could ask questions here for a year`and not attain the knowledge that Dan's books can give you in one night's reading and you need to have that knowledge whether you have pro do the work or do it yourself.

David Nadle

Yes, it's normal

It's normal for the LWCO to cut out while there is still some water in the glass. I don't know about 1/3 of the glass, that seems high.

What isn't normal is to hit low water on every cycle. That's happening because your cycle is way too long, because of the piping and venting problems you have. When you fix those the system will cycle faster and not hit low water every time, and it will be safe to turn the autofeed back on.

Jim Franklin

Is that one of the Effikal gas vent dampers that's been recalled for carbon monoxide?

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09008.html

NShak

Hey SW... nice pick up!

It is an Effikal gas vent damper, but thankfully, not one of the recalled ones (I checked serial numbers...).

Thanks for the heads-up....
Could have saved us from a catastrophe!

Happy Holidays... ours now feels more secure!