replacing main vents

westminster

Hi. I would like to replace the ancient main vents on our one-pipe steam system, and I was hoping that you guys could give me your advice. Here's the set-up in our basement:

There is 16' of 2.5" pipe coming off of our header in one direction with 3 risers. Then the pipe bends 90 degrees and there's an additional 13' of pipe with 2 risers. At the end of the run, there's a main vent on the elbow connected to the return line. This is the first picture below.

There's another 8' of 2.5" pipe coming off of our header in the other direction with 3 risers. At the end of that pipe, there's a 90 degree turn and then a few more inches of pipe before the elbow that connects to the return line which also has a main vent that seems to need replacing. This is the second picture below.

I am hoping that you guys can tell me the best replacements for the two main vents. Also, as you can see from the picture, they are old and paint-covered and I'm wondering if you can give any tips for how best to remove them -- I'm assuming they're not going to go without putting up a fight.

And finally, this may be a stupid question, but I noticed that some of the elbows that attach risers to the mains have these stubs coming out of the bend -- see third picture below. Is that just a normal part of the fitting, or is that what it looks like when a main vent has been removed and plugged up??

Many thanks in advance!

nicholas bonham-carter

removing vents

i think they can be removed without too much trouble.they look to be gorton vents which have a brass thread. use a crescent wrench[or if you have an open end wrench-even better].they may be stubborn at first, but a few taps on the wrench will get them started. use a bit of duct tape to hole the wiring out of the way while you are working.

for exact vent sizing information, i will leave it to others. my own preference would be the biggest gortons you can find-#2. most important-buy some elbows and nipples to move their mounting over 6-12 in. away from the "tee".this will protect them from water-hammer which might have destroyed them in the first place.don't paint them, as this also could obscure the vent hole.use teflon tape on the threads.

not sure about the stubs. the picture was unclear.they may have been the remains of an early water-hammer protection mounting.

keep your pressure down as low as it will go.under 16 oz. is ideal, and these vents will last a long time.--nbc

westminster

Thanks for the info. Can you please elaborate on the idea of moving the mounting with elbows/nipples? I've seen that referred to here before but since I'm a novice, I'm not exactly sure how to set that up.

Unknown

As NBC mentioned the idea is to move the position of the actual vent slightly away from the main. If you have room you can come straight up and put the vent 6 inches above the main. If you lack the room to do this, put a 90 degree street elbow into the hole and add a short nipple (10 -12 inches) and then with a 90 degree elbow go vertical and as high as possible towards the 6 inch ideal.(the elbows help slow down any water) Sometimes it helps to use a union right after the first elbow as that way you can make up the vent and vent piping on your bench and just use the union to attach the made up pipe and vent. Saves having to use a wrench in confined spaces

The whole concept is just to make it harder for any water condensate to reach to your vent. Mounted directly on your main as your old vents are makes them more vulnerable to water condensate traveling down the main. This condensate can travel pretty fast and when it hits the end of the main, can squirt up into the vent. Over time this can cause premature failure of the vent. In the perfect steam world ideally the vent hole is positioned 12 -15 inches before the end of the main ( to get away from the water "squirt") though most vents are positioned like yours (and mine) and work perfectly well.

Here's a site where you can get Gorton vents:

http://www.pexsupply.com/Categories.asp?cID=302&brandid=

You can also probably get them at you local plumbing /heating supply as they are fairly commonly used. The Gorton #2 has 3 times the venting capacity of the Gorton #1.
Gorton #1s & #2s are main vents and not to be confused with radiator vents.

bill_105

HELP!

So, I was able to remove the main vents, and I purchased a Gordon #1 for the small main and a Gordon #2 for the longer main. However, there is a 3/8 bushing in each of the elbows that is the wrong size for both of the new vents (one's too small, the other's too big). I have been struggling to remove the bushing with multiple applications of WD-40 and a pipe wrench to no avail. Should it be possible to remove the old bushings, or should I just add new bushings to the old bushings? Should I keep at it, or is it possible that I will bust a pipe or something worse? Help!

JBee_8

3/8\" Main vent

You could just buy two 3/8" Gorton main vents at Pex supply put them in and be done with it. WD-40 not a great penetrant. WWW.gibbsbrand.com will Work much better, but cost much more.

bill_105

good solution

I like that solution, especially since it would make my life much easier! But do you think that using two #1's would give me enough venting capacity for the size of my mains? On the longer main, would it be better to put in a second bushing to accommodate the #2 (do they even make bushings to expand from 3/8 to 1/2)? First, I will try and pick up a can of the Gibbs if I can find it and give the wrench another shot.

bill_105

what went wrong???

Hi guys. So today, following the advice posted here, I installed new main vents, but neither seems to be working properly and I was hoping you could give me your opinion. On the small main, I put a 3/8 Gorton #1 (see first photo). When I started the system (which had been off for about 24 hours), once it started making steam, the #1 started quietly venting air. But then when the steam hit it, it never closed, it just continued to spit steam until the system cycled off. Does that mean that the vent is broken (I ordered it from PEX Supply)? Or is it possible that I did something wrong when installing, or that something else in the system is causing it to malfunction?

Also, on the larger main, I expanded the 3/8 to 1/2, put in some elbows and nipples and topped it with a Gorton #2 (see photo). When the system started making steam, I couldn't feel or hear any air venting from the #2. It just sat there looking pretty. Eventually the steam hit the vent and it heated up but nothing ever seemed to vent from the holes. Is it possible that this one is broken too? Shouldn't I be able to notice the air coming out of the holes, or am I missing something?

This is my first foray into heating systems, so go easy on me if I screwed something up. Thanks in advance!

nicholas bonham-carter

vents working??

if the venting capacity is well chosen, you should not hear much rushing of air.if the vent heats up, but doesn't let steam out, then it would seem the vents are working.
one still needs the protection from water-hammer.--nbc

bill_105

#1 is defective

Thanks. It sounds then like maybe the #2 is fine, but just to clarify, does it sound like the #1 is defective? I wasn't sure how to protect it from water hammer since there's only about an inch of ceiling clearance even after cutting into the plaster board and there's only a couple of inches clearance on the wall side. But the system was only running for a couple of minutes when the vent didn't close and started spitting steam, which makes me think that it was defective out of the box. Does that sound right?

nicholas bonham-carter

hissssing vent

check your system pressure. the hissing may be a sign the vent is unable to close against the high pressure [best to be under 16 oz.]--nbc

bill_105

pressure

I had set the boiler to operate between 1/2 and 1.5 psi based on reading Dan's book. On that note, the actual pressure gauge is almost always at 0 -- does that mean that the boiler's not working properly, or is that a good sign?

I spoke with Ken at Gorton and he thought the vent might be defective and is going to replace it for me. By the way, he's an awesome guy--extremely patient and helpful. He also said that the #2 is working fine which is why I'm not hearing it.

Brad White_203

Depends on the gauge you are using

The code-required 0-30 PSI gauge is a must, so do not remove it, but is not a very good instrument that one can call useful for the low pressure range.

A 0-5 PSI gauge will at least show some movement while a 0-30 PSI gauge may not get off the peg. Sort of like timing a 100 yard dash with a calendar.

Personally a good 0-32 ounce gauge is my ideal for low pressures.

David Nadle

How sure are you the pigtail isn't clogged?

bill_105

Okay, I'll consider adding another, more sensitive gauge. I'm assuming this is not a DIY job that I should call in a pro?

As for the pigtail being clogged, I'm not sure -- how can I tell?

David Nadle

Remove it and check.

Personally, if I were to remove a pigtail I would just put on a new one anyway. They cost $15. It's better to have a new one in hand anyway in case the old one gets damaged in removal.

If you're calling in a pro to add a sensitive gauge, have him just put on a new pigtail at the same time.

Dan Haraburda_2

looking to add more gorton 1 on the end of main.
the current one seems to work, but how do i know its really working. it gives a bit of hiss now and them and at the end of the cycle it spits out a droplet of water.

is this one malfunctioning? i mean it defeats the purpose to add 2 more only to have 1 out of three not functioning..

Please advise.

Thanks

Unknown

For a low pressure gauge try the Gauge Store

http://www.gaugestore.com/

They have a 0-35 oz. PSI (Model 33013), 0-3 PSI (Model 33020) and a 0-5 PSI (Model 33021) - good to a max of 140 deg. so you'll need a pigtail to protect it from steam. I get my pigtails from McMaster Carr

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Catalog page 578 . I use the red brass pigtails as they don't corrode.

David Nadle

Possibility

On that gorton #1, I think it's possible that it doesn't like being mounted directly over the drip leg and is lifting water vapor out of the leg. Perhaps you could try a similar elbow/nipple arrangement as you did with the #2 and move it laterally a bit.

bill_105

Thanks for the recs on the new gauge/pigtails.

I didn't mention that the boiler is actually new, so would that make it unlikely that the pigtail is clogged? I checked and it is facing the right way (per Dan's book).

David Nadle

I thought the same thing, but

my pigtail plugged halfway through the first season.

alang

brad, you wrote
"The code-required 0-30 PSI gauge is a must, so do not remove it, but is not a very good instrument that one can call useful for the low pressure range.

A 0-5 PSI gauge will at least show some movement while a 0-30 PSI gauge may not get off the peg. Sort of like timing a 100 yard dash with a calendar.

what if the 0-30psi guage is reading 6 psi? is there something faulty with my pressure?
Thanks

alang

brad, you wrote "The code-required 0-30 PSI gauge is a must, so do not remove it, but is not a very good instrument that one can call useful for the low pressure range.

A 0-5 PSI gauge will at least show some movement while a 0-30 PSI gauge may not get off the peg. Sort of like timing a 100 yard dash with a calendar. what if the 0-30psi guage is reading 6 psi? is there something faulty with my pressure? Thanks

FJL

Pigtails

The catalogue says to fill the pigtail with water. I had never heard that before in any discussion about pigtails and steam. Is that what you do when you hook it up? Fill the pigtail with some water?

scrook_2

Yep, fill it with water when you install.

Otherwise the hot steam gets to the gauge and/or control until it condenses and fills the pigtail.

nicholas bonham-carter

faulty pressure

yes! steam systems like low pressures. main vents like low pressures. your fuel company likes high pressures. if you have set your pressuretrol as low as it will go, and your system gets up to 5 psi, then it's time for a vaporstat [0-16 oz.], before you absorb the entire yearly production of the gorton vent co, and pay for new wells to be dug!--nbc

alang

is it a bad pressuretrol on my system you think?