Onix or PEX?

Mark Eatherton

Tell us your real feelings :-)

PEX is my preference. Personally, I have only owned one vehicle that didn't suffer from hose failure. That vehicle was a Volkswagen Bug...

To their credit, Watts Radiant has a LARGE contingent of DEDICATED followers.

ME

Brian_57

I am just getting involved with radiant heat and was curious what all you think. Onix tubing or Pex with heat transfer plates for staple up systems? The Onix literature claims there is no need for transfer plates and the tubing doesn't expand and contract. Hence the higher cost of the tubing is justified by not having to buy all the transfer plates. I also like how flexible the onix is compared to the pex. Whats your experience with onix is it worth the extra cash.

Derheatmeister

LOOK Ma no Plates ! ??

I hate that advertisement and am in strong disbelieve that a Rubber hose can out perform a Plated Pex Install(Btu transfer wise)
Show me hard data!

As to the pulling of the Pex it is not that bad if you plan ahead,i use a Special Staple gun and a altered nail driver with a rubber head to install the plates and the Tube.

As i have stated before i also have GREAT CONCERNS with the "Radiator Hose" type of Tubing,i just have seen to many failures because of Oxygen migration/Premature deterioration of the hose;circs;fill valves;expansion tanks;boilers;glycol and am seeing problems even with the "new and improved" version. in other words: i would not even use this HOSE as a Garden hose even if it was UV stabilized.

Have you looked at using flooring systems like Roth or Warmboard? it can be easier to install and will give you a better heat transfer/ reaction time than a Plated staple up

Hope this helps Heatmeister

Derheatmeister

LOOK Ma no Plates ! ??

I hate that advertisement and am in strong disbelieve that a Rubber hose can out perform a Plated Pex Install(Btu transfer wise)
Show me hard data!

As to the pulling of the Pex it is not that bad if you plan ahead,i use a Special Staple gun and a altered nail driver with a rubber head to install the plates and the Tube.

As i have stated before i also have GREAT CONCERNS with the "Radiator Hose" type of Tubing,i just have seen to many failures because of Oxygen migration/Premature deterioration of the hose;circs;fill valves;expansion tanks;boilers;glycol and am seeing problems even with the "new and improved" version. in other words: i would not even use this HOSE as a Garden hose even if it was UV stabilized.

Have you looked at using flooring systems like Roth or Warmboard? it can be easier to install and will give you a better heat transfer/ reaction time than a Plated staple up

Hope this helps Heatmeister

Derheatmeister

LOOK Ma no Plates ! ??

I hate that advertisement and am in strong disbelieve that a Rubber hose can out perform a Plated Pex Install(Btu transfer wise)
Show me hard data!

As to the pulling of the Pex it is not that bad if you plan ahead,i use a Special Staple gun and a altered nail driver with a rubber head to install the plates and the Tube.

As i have stated before i also have GREAT CONCERNS with the "Radiator Hose" type of Tubing,i just have seen to many failures because of Oxygen migration/Premature deterioration of the hose;circs;fill valves;expansion tanks;boilers;glycol and am seeing problems even with the "new and improved" version. in other words: i would not even use this HOSE as a Garden hose even if it was UV stabilized.

Have you looked at using flooring systems like Roth or Warmboard? it can be easier to install and will give you a better heat transfer/ reaction time than a Plated staple up

Hope this helps Heatmeister

Derheatmeister

LOOK Ma no Plates ! ??

I hate that advertisement and am in strong disbelieve that a Rubber hose can out perform a Plated Pex Install(Btu transfer wise)
Show me hard data!

As to the pulling of the Pex it is not that bad if you plan ahead,i use a Special Staple gun and a altered nail driver with a rubber head to install the plates and the Tube.

As i have stated before i also have GREAT CONCERNS with the "Radiator Hose" type of Tubing,i just have seen to many failures because of Oxygen migration/Premature deterioration of the hose;circs;fill valves;expansion tanks;boilers;glycol and am seeing problems even with the "new and improved" version. in other words: i would not even use this HOSE as a Garden hose even if it was UV stabilized.

Have you looked at using flooring systems like Roth or Warmboard? it can be easier to install and will give you a better heat transfer/ reaction time than a Plated staple up

Hope this helps Heatmeister

Derheatmeister

LOOK Ma no Plates ! ??

I hate that advertisement and am in strong disbelieve that a Rubber hose can out perform a Plated Pex Install(Btu transfer wise)
Show me hard data!

As to the pulling of the Pex it is not that bad if you plan ahead,i use a Special Staple gun and a altered nail driver with a rubber head to install the plates and the Tube.

As i have stated before i also have GREAT CONCERNS with the "Radiator Hose" type of Tubing,i just have seen to many failures because of Oxygen migration/Premature deterioration of the hose;circs;fill valves;expansion tanks;boilers;glycol and am seeing problems even with the "new and improved" version. in other words: i would not even use this HOSE as a Garden hose even if it was UV stabilized.

Have you looked at using flooring systems like Roth or Warmboard? it can be easier to install and will give you a better heat transfer/ reaction time than a Plated staple up

Hope this helps Heatmeister

MikeyB

radiant hose

How does Onix compare to Heatway, or are they the same animal? I hear the radiant hose is much better than pex for staple up jobs that have a 3/4" hardwood floor, easier to navigate around the nails instead of clipping the nail ends all off, a big time saver from what I understand. It seems that the pex style of making the connections is a little more sound than the hose clamps for heatway...I guess their are pro's and cons for both types

Mark Custis

We have

an Onix floor stapled up with the Watts modified Stenco staple gun. The installation went well. I hit the stuff with a staple and needed to use their coupling with clamps, it held to 75 psi. Foil faced fiber glass insulation 2 inches below the subfloor. Aluminum side towards the floor.

It is starting it's fifth winter without any of problems. I am running the floor warmer than the inslab or gypcrete floors in this home, mostly due to carpeting above the floor.

Brian_57

Thanks for your insight i have seen both pex and onix installlations and was on the fence about it. I work with pex for potable water lines and hydronic base board loops. The reason i was looking at the onix was i have to give and estimate on a small addition for radiant staple up but i only have a three foot crawl space to work in and the onix looked easier to install.

Derheatmeister

Especially if you only have a 3' crawler you should try to do it from above.

Is there room to: Lose "a Inch and a half" on the height on the room? if not why not offer Radiant panels and Towel racks in the bath rooms.

Just some thoughts.

MikeyB_3

onix

Dan wrote about installing the Heatway radiant in an unforgiving crawl space in his book , and that was the tubing of choice for that install.

Derheatmeister

Very Green!!

Lets talk about Life expectancy's !

Sorry,..But when us "Germans" build a "HAUS" we want it to last for a "little while now"..Maybe hand it down to the grandson's Son..or Dougherty..So we use Materials and tactics that make it Last longer and try to be "Green"about it as well.

For those that are going to dwell on this now:I Know we are not in Germany!! And even the Germans are not perfect!
I reserve the right to say this because i am both a:"Germerican" and i like some things that the germans do also do i like some of the "American ways"!

I think that PEX has a life Expectancy of 200 years??

How about the "Rubber Hose"?? 10 maybe 20 years?? I have seen it last for as little as 8 years! I do not know the answer to that one!! can anybody enlighten me!

Or maybe i shall not worry to much about this
because Rubber is quick and easy and is that not the way it has to be today?...Make more work and do not worry about the consequences.. our kinds will deal with that later.....

So much for being Green: Just throw it away and buy a new one or Just do a "plateless Rubber hose" install and Crank that supply temp up so that the system will work ...hey it works..
What about all the Embodied energy?
So in my Opinion even a "LARGE and contingent of DEDICATED followers" does not mean that they all are "RUNNING in the right direction"!

Them be my real feelings and,or:Just my opinion.. Heatmeister :-)

Bob Forand

Faithful following

Not trying to pick an argument, but the faithful following around here is soley because of onix's ease of install. I have changed out way to many expansion tanks and pumps on onix systems to become one of the following. Some of these pump failures have been in less than three years. Should I tell Taco that there pumps are junk because they fail so quckly ? The expansion tanks have all had to be changed to RX-30 with the potable liners. Should I tell Amtrol there tanks are junk because they fail in one year ? No, the common denomenator is Onix.

Stay away, far away ...

Derheatmeister

Thank you bob..

I see it the same way and do not understand why some Installers or suppliers just:" put on the Blinds"

Or are they really not seeing any premature failures of all that you have mentioned including the Boiler.???

Or do they Just change that circulating pump/exp. tank and not look at why it failed, maybe they think it is gut for business(Parts changers)???

Or Maybe "they" do not know what to look for!

Or maybe it's just another "Bad batch" that has just concentrated on you and me!!

That's it: A big Black Cloud hanging over just you and me!

Or maybe it is up to us to give away the Tell tell signs.??

Richard..