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it would behoove mr obama.......

D107 Member Posts: 1,849
Matt, though I can feel the leg wobbling in its socket from being pulled, in case you're even half-serious: this was a form email sent out. I guess it's conceivable that over time if serious people are delegated by them to read the inputs and some names prove to be reliable purveyors of information then they'll get read more seriously. But I'm sure they would read anything from you guys with the HVAC resumes far more quickly than from me, though I'll continue to mention the site and others in anything I send if only on the slight chance it will be useful.

I do think Dan could set up a delegation to meet with these people if he felt it worthwhile. I figure the more times they see heatinghelp.com in writing the more likely impact will be made. I'm thinking the only way he can do all this outreach is to keep many of his campaign supporters and staffers working on this network.

I think the Wall exemplifies precisely the combination of science, innovation, tenacity to high standards in a field at the center of the country's dilemma that they SHOULD be interested in.




  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,720
    to have \"his people\" check in here at the wall

    Feel-good platitudes run out of gas -fast. Let's keep it real. All of America is NOT gonna get 90plus upgrades in there homes + businesses. They need to consult with actual field experts - US...to hear us out on PRACTICAL solutions: how about a tax credit for installing a proper sized boiler!!!!!! Now there is a novel idea. We will be replacing an old bryant steamer this week...its 450 k...the local "authorities" say a 350 k is "fine.". We will be installing a burnham steamer rated around 225. OBAMa can you hear me? Mad dog

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  • George_40
    George_40 Member Posts: 13
    Great idea!

    Sign me up!

    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Rich Kontny_3
    Rich Kontny_3 Member Posts: 562
    Trust me

    They are visiting here Mad Dog, just give them a chance to get in the driver's seat.There is ever so much to do in this country as far as energy usage is concerned. This site has been and always will be ahead of the curve.

    What I am waiting for is the closet conservationists to surface. The key of course is change. So many of our younger members have not lived through a true energy crisis yet. Many are brain washed by the word smiths who have dominated the air ways for almost 25 years. These same know it alls speak half truths at best!

    Like Europe and others who have had high fuel costs since WWII< America has to finally adjust and respond to finite natural resources. Our friends to the north (Canada) take there lead fron Europe instead of us. In Canada they are sitting on reserves and are looking toward the future.

    Read Jeremy Rivkin's "European Dream" and see how the European Union is poised for the future while in America the emphasis has been on I. We is the key now and I will take its place in history. This is not new, what is new is the fact that globalization is now in place and there simply are no new frontiers to get cheap resources from.

    The sudden and drastic fuel price drop is simply a temporary reaction to a very severe economic crisis. The price hikes will return as soon as the new administration takes helm and rights the good ship USA.

    Very interesting to watch (although painful to many)

    Rich K
  • Singh_9
    Singh_9 Member Posts: 24
    may I suggest

    mandatory weather reset controls, all new systems must not exceed 167*, a temperature zone control for each room, all the new administration needs to do is look at Europe.

    Also, our electrical grid needs major overhaul, no need for heat pumps if we're still using atiquated delivery system.

    Do you have the courage and intestinal fortitude for real change, do you?

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  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,720

    Do you know this for a fact Rich...that they are "here" and listening?  Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,720
    Many of the very same people that tout \"green\" technology\"

    and "change" are not willing to pay the extra for the more efficient eqiuptment...yes, we will find out Devan, if A majority of Americans WILL have the guts and put their money up. I think it will quite spotty. Mandating things to Americans does not go over well.....now offer some REAL incentives, grants, or tax cuts to those willing to be pioneers...and you will see these ideas come to fruition. Mad Dog

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  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656

    I'd wanna bet that without effective lobbying in WA. from a consortium of groups...ie: ASHRAE, RPA, the boiler and solar manufacturers, energy legislation will be muddy.

    I'd like to see a 40% tax credit for supplemental wind, solar or PV, 40% tax credit for installation of a modulating boiler, and mandatory requirements for outdoor reset controls with a tax rebate or credit. Nothing that hasn't been available in Europe.

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  • Matt_67
    Matt_67 Member Posts: 284
    Green does not always mean green

    It depends on who is doing the measuring. Many so called green LEED buildings today with all the high tech goods from a total energy usage stand point are bigger energy hogs than buildings built decades ago.
    First its about the energy usage of the entire structure. Second it is about envelope aka the shell.
    Third the control strategies employed. The new high tech gadgets and so called new hydronic stuff account for less than 10% savings in the overall grand scheme.
    That's kinda the difference between a 80 and 90 percent unit.
  • I have to agree with Mad Dog

    The big difference between Europe and America is that typically, Europeans tolerate much more governmental authority than we do. What we're more likely to see here is incentives rather than regulations.

    Those regulations we do see will probably be something like CAFE for vehicles- simply setting a standard and letting manufacturers use whatever technology will meet them. This is why, for example, we have a choice between gasoline, Diesel and hybrid drivetrains, with more options on the way.

    And I think our President-elect is savvy enough to know this.

    BTW, Dawg- I bet you were the ONLY one to properly size that boiler. Everyone else probably used the label method or some other goofball technique.

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  • D107
    D107 Member Posts: 1,849
    web contact

    Obama's people have set up a website to solicit public input. They seem to genuinely believe they will be able to harvest wisdom from many groups and citizens.


    Here is a note I received from them: (probably because I was on their contributor list or have already submitted ideas.)

    "..Everyday, we meet with organizations that present ideas for the Transition and the incoming Obama-Biden Administration. In past transitions, meetings like this have been held behind closed doors.

    Not anymore. Today, every Obama-Biden Transition staff member received a memo outlining the "Seat at the Table" Transparency Policy. I've included a copy of it below.
    The policy is pretty simple: the people and groups we're meeting with, the subjects of the meetings, and any documents shared in the meetings will now be made available on Change.gov. Most importantly, the American public can weigh in with comments or their own materials.
    Read the memo and watch our "Seat at the Table" video.

    This is our latest step toward a more transparent and accessible Transition. We look forward to benefitting from the many more voices that will now be a part of the decision-making process.

    Thank you,
    John D. Podesta
    The Obama-Biden Transition Project"

    From: John Podesta
    To: All Obama-Biden Transition Project Staff
    Date: December 4, 2008
    Re: "Seat at the Table" Transparency Policy -- EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY


    As an extension of the unprecedented ethics guidelines already in place for the Obama-Biden Transition Project, we take another significant step towards transparency of our efforts for the American people. Every day, we meet with organizations who present ideas for the Transition and the Administration, both orally and in writing. We want to ensure that we give the American people a "seat at the table" and that we receive the benefit of their feedback.
    Accordingly, any documents from official meetings with outside organizations will be posted on our website for people to review and comment on.

    In addition to presenting ideas as individuals at www.change.gov, the American people deserve a "seat at the table" as we receive input from organizations and make decisions. In the interest of protecting the personal privacy of individuals, this policy does not apply to personnel matters and hiring recommendations.


    The following information will be posted on our website:

    1. Documents: All policy documents and written policy recommendations from official meetings with outside organizations.

    2. Meetings: The date and organizations represented at official meetings in the Transition headquarters or agency offices, with any documents presented as noted above.

    This scope is a floor, not a ceiling, and all staff are strongly encouraged to include additional materials. Such materials could include documents (recommendations, press releases, etc.) presented in smaller meetings or materials or made public by the outside organization without a connection to an official meeting.

    If you have any questions as to whether documents should be included, please email [REDACTED].


    Prior to an official meeting with an outside organization or organizations, Obama-Biden Transition Project staff members will inform attendees that any documents provided will be posted on our "Seat at the Table" website found at www.change.gov.

    Suggested language for email invitations is: "By presenting or submitting any document at a meeting with the Obama-Biden Transition Project, you agree to allow the document to be made public and posted on www.change.gov." At the completion of each meeting or upon receipt of such documents, Transition staff will provide the documents to [REDACTED] with the date of the meeting, a list of the organizations in attendance, and the topic of the meeting.


    1) This policy does not apply to non-public or classified information acquired from the Agency Review Process and internal memorandum.

    2) An "official meeting" is defined as a meeting with outside organizations or representatives of those organizations to which three or more outside participants attend
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,720
    we'll the owner almost fell off his chair

    when I told him how "small" the boiler would be...you know I always agonize over sizing. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,720
    Hi David....

    we'll, Im sure your support has helped in the response category. When one calls a politican's office for ANYTHING, one gets: "and...are you a constituent of the senator...."? David, since you already have a "hook" with the new admin...and have a great way with words...perhaps you could be our liason - I'm serious. I will leave it up to you...to get "them" here. I know how persistent you are. You the man for this job. Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,720

    dead SERIOUS! I wouldn't play....You are articulate ...super smart, and in the loop. Make it happen! I know you know people. Mad dog

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