steam in germany

bob young

i heard somewhere that steam for heating is banned & illegal in Germany. any truth to this , gents ?

Derheatmeister

Higher Temperartures

Higher temps have been "Out" for a long time now!

Even about 30 years ago when i was in my Trade in germany we were converting Gravity systems to Circ. system.

That is why some of the Boilers are Restricted to 167 F (Like Viessmann)Blue Angle Law..

If one designs the heat distribution correctly (say tube 6 Inch on centers or Large Rads)and the Building is Insulated well then there is no need for high temps !(It's just a waste of energy)!remember that a Condensing boiler losses efficiency after about 138/140 F

With that said :Some of the German manufactures are catering to the US market by increasing the supply temp to the 180's even the 190's


As far as being "Banned":I do not Think that Steam is completely banned:My Brother works for a German Pharmaceutical company as a engineer that uses Extem High temps "Steam" to sanitize !

Also, just think about all them recycled Beer Bottles that need to be Sanitized with Steam before reuse/refill(Yes they sanitize the bottles and reuse them rather then wasting more energy to remelt the glass!)

And them Germans like beer! so steam it is! Heatmeister

mark ransley

I know in England a country with mild temps, that Exports energy. Non condensing hw boilers have not been allowed for replacement for years, and steam is rare. Thank our administrations for still alowing 82% efficent heating and us to waste near 700 billion a year on energy imports. Im would not be suprised as steam isnt better than 83% efficent. Germany has the most ambitious solar initive that is ahead of schedule, their goal is something like 25% solar by 2030, in Germany you make money instaling solar, if only Bush had a brain.

Mad Dog_2

No need to inject politics

Mad Dog

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DanHolohan

Frankfurt

has a district heating system and the Messe Frankfurt, where they hold the ISH, is heated with steam radiators. That'st he only place I saw with direct steam heat, though. Other buildings have plate-and-frame heat exchangers to transfer the steam's latent heat into the water.

Mark Eatherton

What Dan said...

When Siggy, Bill Shady and myself were on WILO tour, we saw a large building with converters that converted steam from a district heating system into hot water.

Residentially speaking, you would be committing economic sewercide to use steam with their energy costs...

Used where appropriate...

ME

Fred Harwood_2

Politics

Just a reminder that in the US laws come from the legislature (Congress). The executive branch either signs on or not. If the voters want to ban steam, they must do it through the legislature, not the executive.

Robert O'Brien

Not all Germans

are in love with solar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/world/europe/07solar.html?scp=2&sq=solar germany&st=cse

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bob young

is residential steam forbidden in Germany ????

still no positive yes or no. guess no one actually knows.

Steamhead (in transit)

Au contraire

90%+ IS possible on steam, trouble is American boiler manufacturers are dragging their collective feet getting these units on the market. Hoval and Gasmaster are two foreign manufacturers I know of that have marketed high-efficiency steamers, mostly in larger commercial sizes. And IIRC, even Vie$$mann makes some steam equipment for the German market.

The Burnham MegaSteam boiler has an AFUE rating of 86%- noticeably better than the 83% you quote. Some of the Smith and Slant/Fin steamers are almost as good. And steam doesn't have the parasitic pumping loads that hot-water does, if the system uses gravity-return. In fact, one can build a steam system for a smallish house that has only two moving parts other than those on the boiler. Try that with hot-water.

You can zone a steam system easily if you know what you're doing. TRVs can make each room its own zone.

Don't believe everything they tell you about what's going on in other countries. For example, we keep hearing that Japan mandated 6-liter (1.6 gallon) toilets in the 1970s. But the newer hotels The Lovely Naoko and I stayed in all had Toto's clones of the old Case one-piece toilet and they definitely weren't 1.6.

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