High Effiency Boilers

Robert O'Brien

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steve b_27

High Effiency Boilers

I have many customers asking about high effiency hot water boilers.M y question is will they get the high effiencys out of the equiptment if they have high temp heat emmiters.Will they actually save money or is it a waste....

steve b_27

Any chance you could go into more detail so I could arm myself for a debait with customers?

Unknown

They will

save money if the boiler is equipted with an outdoor reset control, and most are. Anytime the outdoor reset tells the boiler to run at 135 or below they get to collect all that latent heat from condensing. Many high temp systems run only at 180 on design day, which is rare. And many systems will actually run lower because they used extra baseboard or the original radiators were designed for coal. That means you can set your reset curve even lower and keep them in the condensing mode more of the time.
TONY

steve b_27

So then it would be benificial to use this type of equiptment and still benifit .Was looking at the Munchkin boiler to propose to my customers.Is this agood choise or have there been problems with this brand?

Bob Bona_4

you'll

find efficiency in the fact that the burner modulates depending on load, and they draw combustion air from outside the envelope. ODR is just part of the benefits.

The 5 days out of the year, sure, it may run up to non condensing.

I haven't put in an atomospheric gas in years, not when I can have a boiler that matches the load changes.

Unknown

Munchkin

I personally have little expeirience with this boiler, having installed 2 of them a number of years ago before they came with the outdoor reset. I must say they have never caused me any trouble. But Im sure there are others here more qualified on that boiler. The boilers I have trouble with are the aluminum ones because early cast iron boilers that were near condensating had us venting with ultra vent and plex vent if you remember. Then after that removal fiasco they told us we had to use AL 294c for the vent and tried to get the installers to pay for it. Even the chimney liners had to be al294c... no 316 or aluminum, they just couldnt take the ravaging effects of gas condensate!! But now all is wonderful in the world of aluminum, its ok to make your condensing exchanger out of it, yea I know its extra special German Aluminum.. we couldnt possibly understand. Just Ramblin on this rainy day. I guess once bitten twice shy.
Yes you will be doing your customers a big favor, just make sure whosever unit you sell that your wholesaler has made an investment in parts and factory training.TONY

Brad White_204

What Robert Posted

that attachment, is a study done at Brookhaven National Labs, to settle that issue. Print out a copy and give it to your clients. I believe it is in the public domain, being paid for by federal DOE program dollars.

A system designed for 180F water will work with condensing boilers because, with outdoor reset and mindful of average weather, there are plenty of hours above the design cold temperatures where the boiler will be in the condensing range.

Add to this that most houses originally designed for 180F baseboard may well get by with lower water temperatures day-one. If such houses' systems were designed for uninsulated construction and old-style windows but now have insulation and modern windows, all the better. you may have year-round condensing.

In my experience, modulation is the biggest savings compared to on-off burner operation, condensing is a bonus.