Webster Vapor

Ross_7

Well, from what I counted it was 805 for the EDR. I can't find my notes, right this second. I noticed that a few radiators were removed,but not more that 2 that I could see. There is no way of knowing what size these were, except that the locations didn't look that big. The Bermuda is 892 EDR. Most of the radiators are on the second floor of this building. The first floor is a restaurant with only 3 radiators. Upstairs are all the Trade union offices for Marquette. Thermostat is on the second floor. I would like to talk them into a Tekmar 279, using the two sensors for the first & second floor as an average. Have you done this setup before? I was expecting to use a Vaporstat for the operating controls. The mains & returns definitely need to be re-insulated. Kind of a mess & lots of bare piping.

Ross_7

Webster Vapor

Here's one I'll be working on soon. I only found one F&T in the middle of the building. Webster 00028. A lot of the drips seem to roll back to the boiler room & 90 down to the boiler below the water line.
Ross

Steamhead (in transit)

That's the Webster Modulation system

which runs on a maximum of 8 ounces. Vaporstat territory.

Those traps connecting the steam mains with the dry returns serve as main vents. If they're not working, steam won't distribute properly.

What drains into that F&T? BTW the last digit in the model number is probably 6, not 8.

You'll probably want to add venting capacity on the dry return. That Vent Trap can only vent so fast.

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Ross_7

webster

Hi Frank,

I could barely see the 6 on the F&T. I thought it was an 8, even after I glanced at the service manual before I left work. The F&T ties into the main about center of the building exact opposite end of the boiler. Like I said, I could only locate one F&T trap. The main splits into two & goes to opposite sides of the building, comes together in the middle, then comes back to the boiler room. The three pipes come back together. End of the mains, and a condensate line which ties back into the oulet of the F&T.
I'll try word that better, the picture of "9749" is basically, the two outside pipes are the steam mains, and the one in the middle comes from the oultet of the 00026.
Ross

Steamhead (in transit)

So it looks like

the F&T gets the start-up condensate and air from the main and is used to send it into a dry return. Maybe they could not have used a wet return for some reason, or just wanted some more venting capacity.......

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Ross_7

yes..

The basement is huge for height. At least 8' ceilings, this is consistent with the entire structure. Boiler is a U.S. Boiler coal to gas convert, with a 5" main coming off the top, bushed down to 4". If, looking at the Webster Manual, this system is definitely not textbook. Hard to explain sometimes what the logic was behind the install. Sometimes, I wish that life expectancy was 150, so I could get some answers from the Dead Men. I appreciate your input, Frank. I value your opinion. A second set of is always helpful.
Ross

Steamhead (in transit)

If you replace that boiler

try to find a 5" tee and run your drop header into that. Sure, it will cost more, but this will slow down the steam velocity to about where it was with the old boiler.

Here's a shot of one where we did the same thing, except the drop header was 3-inch and the original piping was 4-inch. The change is made at the elbow.

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Ross_7

that's the plan

We are getting ready to replace this boiler with a new Crown boiler. Webster calls for 4oz cut-in & 12oz cut out. EDR has already been figured. Should be a good project. We are doing it in conjunction with the apprenticeship school. I went down to take some pictures, before demolition started, as a reference.

Steamhead (in transit)

How much

EDR? Which Crown will you use?

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Steamhead (in transit)

That could be done

but since the restaurant would get too hot when it's full of people, it might be better to just use TRVs in there rather than try to average both floors. Otherwise the offices would go cold.

Tunstall sells kits that can convert Webster radiator valves into TRVs. These save a lot of labor.

The Vaporstat is a no-brainer. Too bad Crown doesn't offer that boiler in lo-hi-lo.

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Ross_7

Yeah..

Woody, and I are on a first name basis. We installed Tunstall cage units in most of the radiators ( the ones that were bad) about 5 or 6 years ago for the O2H traps in this same building. We are going to check them all again in the process of the project. I wish Crown had the Hi-Lo-Hi fire option also. I'll look into the TRV's. Thanks Frank!
Ross

Ross_7

oops

slight typo there...shoulda been lo-hi-lo like you said.