\"I'm on a mission from Gaad\"

Patrick North

Oh boy.
I'm taking a look at our church's steam system to investigate "room for improvement." We have a small parish and a big ol' church ($$$ to heat) so yesterday I went on a scouting mission for potential system improvements. I'm not in the trades, but the info I've gained here and the $$ I've saved in tweeking my own one pipe system made me think it was worth a shot. Plus, I'm free!
There are three buildings: the church, a parsonage, and a fellowship hall. One boiler services the parsonage (the center building) and another monster (1600+sqft) services the fellowship hall AND, thanks to an underground 4" main, the church. Both boilers are around 15 years old.
First was the smaller boiler for the parsonage. None of the mains were vented or insulated, and the radiators were a _combination_ of one pipe, two pipe with steam traps, and two pipe with vents. ??!?!! Piping in the basement was a crazy mishmosh and made me seasick just looking at it. Can this possibly be legit?
The next boiler (for the church and meeting hall) sits in an uninsulated walkout basement under the meeting hall. Crazy piping. Mains are mostly uninsulated, to boot. No main vents on the main servicing the meeting hall above this boiler. A large 4+" main travels underground (no one's sure if it's in a trench of vermiculite, a tunnel, or just dirt) about 75' to the church. Once in the church it travels through a wacky king valve setup and splits into two mains to feed radiators along either side of the church. Each of these mains is an additional 75+' of 3+" pipe. At the end of each- finally!- is a single main vent- looks to be about a 50 year old Hoffman about the size of a walnut. The final rads on these mains have an inlet vale on one end and another on the other for condensate.


We have little money to spend in order to save. That said, I'm going to suggest we have main venting added where it is absent and increased where it is laughably small. Insulating mains is high on the list, too, but asbestos mitigation could complicate things here. At the very least, I'm going to suggest we insulate the one uninsulated boiler room.
The state of our system gives me little faith in our current "steam specialist" who seems to have had a hand in some of the more questionable "improvements," and it may be difficult to convince others that these fixes are worth while. After all this, my questions to you all are:
1) I'm not a pro. Any tips on voicing and backing up my lay-opinion?
2) The piping arrangement with the hybrid one-pipe, two pipe, vapor setup- any thoughts on how this _happened?_ Treat it as a one pipe system?
3) Anyone care to throw out some efficiency savings numbers (%s, not $s) that I might use to tantalize the skeptical?

I've generated some interest in getting Steamhead out to look, but this is a first stab to show "proof of concept."

My head is swimming.
Thanks, all,
Patrick

Timco

Tekmar 279, and TRVs.

Tim

Mark Eatherton

I'm guessing you've never read Dan's book that states...

NEVER work for friends, relatives or the Church to which you attend....

Remember, no good deed goes unpunished.

Good on you, and best of luck. ;-)

ME

Patrick North

Aw shoot-

I got excited when I saw your name- I was sure you were going to send us some free prototype radiant stained glass windows...
Patrick

ttekushan_3

depends on denomination

For example, I've found Methodist systems are the oldest and therefore are two pipe with air vent.

At first I thought you were describing the very system I am now completing. First you have to map the system out as it is. Then go back upstairs to the Sanctuary. Pray. Go back down and determine what's been added/changed. Map out what you think its original layout and logic was.

From there you will be able to determine what can't be practically restored, what won't be that bad to do, and what can be left as is even though its not quite right. Then we can get to specific complaints.

Taking pictures and drawing a road map would be nice.