still scratching my head at the K-M-C vacuum system

Erich_3

Have you looked at RESOURCES/LIBRARY on the Wall? There is an explanation and piping diagram of your K-M-C system. It is here:
http://www.heatinghelp.com/pdfs/126.pdf

niftyc

four puzzles in my basement piping

I have a 1906 K-M-C vacuum system in my house with a 17-year old boiler. It is working OK (thanks to earlier help from THIS FORUM) but it could be better. I've bought "A Steamy Deal" and read all of the books, but there are some puzzles in my basement piping that I just can't figure out and I wonder if anyone has any ideas. I don't want to start changing things until I understand how it works!

I am a homeowner trying to love steam heat but it is a steep learning curve. I have no experience with this stuff but I am trying.

It looks like my basement originally had a big steam main that wound around the ceiling near the foundation wall of the basement serving the risers, before ending at a wet return. That is still there, and it works.

However, there are several changes to the piping that puzzle me. Puzzle #1 is that two large first floor radiators seem to have been originally served by the old steam main, but now there are pipe plugs in those outlets from the main. Instead, someone (a long time ago by the pipe color and condition) brought a new main from the boiler mostly parallel to the existing main. The new main is 25' long but it serves just two radiators. The original (old) main is still working, and the new one is working. I don't see why these two radiators deserve their own main, or what could possibly be the reason for this piping.

Puzzle #2: There is also a place where the steam main has been altered to make a U-shape downward. It looks like it is going around an obstruction but there is no obstruction. In fact, it is in the middle of a room. The U shape is about 1' on each side. There is no drip on it. Why is it there? Isn't it filled with water (or something bad)? From what I read in the books, this doesn't seem right at all.

Puzzle #3: While it looks like I probably originally had one wet return, now I have two wet returns. The end of two steam mains come almost together at the other side of my basement from the boiler. But rather than joining up again, one drops down and becomes a very long wet return that runs along the floor (about 15'). I always trip over it. The other one runs parallel to it, but it remains up high. Then after 15' it drops down and joins the first one. There are no radiators served by this section of piping -- they just head back to the boiler. This just looks like an eccentric way to waste pipe.

Puzzle #4 is the near-boiler piping. I found the original installation manual for my 17-year-old boiler. It specifies one riser and an equalizer just as specified by Dan's books. Instead, I have two risers, each is a different size, and they go in different directions from the boiler. One has an equalizer sort of tacked on. Part of this could be explained by someone's desire to re-use existing piping, but other parts just don't make any sense. There is no Hartford Loop. The Lost Art of Steam Heating has a whole chapter on near-boiler piping, so it must be pretty normal to encounter this kind of weirdness? I look at the diagrams in the book and then I look at what is in my basement and I think "uh, oh." Should I worry?

Hoping you have ideas.

Christian

Charlie from wmass

Christian you have what is very unfortunaely a very common futzed up steam system. If the boiler is in good condition a good steam person in your area could repipe the problem areas. The repairs will either bring more comfort or lower fuel bills or in a best case scenario both. Working anmd working well are two different things. Systems such as you have are why people remove steam systems as they are tired of having the system "fixed" by "experts" Steam systems are very simple systems to do right. The issue is most things are easy for a well versed person to do in their given field. You have the books, if the book says it is wrong then it is wrong. now the issues become is it wrong enough for me to hire a trademan to fix it? Item one was done to get more steam to those rads or even as an attempt to zone them. Item 2 was some sort of trap to either stop steam from passing that point or the help condensate form before it returns to the boiler. I am guesing there are no takeoffs for rads after that trap. Item three returns can be wet or dry but must drop before going into the boiler. the higher on I am guessing was the newer one. It sounds like they need attention but this is hard to say from several hundred miles away. Item four, yes near boiler piping is often not up to par. Dan could very well right a whole book on the ways it is done wrong. It saves trees righting how to do it right. Steam is simple, this is its biggest flaw as K.I.S.S. is seldom the way folks solve problems.

niftyc

\"is it wrong enough?\"

Thanks so much Charlie. This is very helpful.

Puzzle #2 remains a puzzle. I think I am not describing it well. If I can find my bright flashlight I will get down to the basement with it and post a picture.

I especially like your phrase, "is it wrong enough?" My situation is that the system is working pretty well. There are a few nagging problems that remain but it is hard to diagnose them. When I go through the checklists etc. in Dan's books it seems that everything in my system is at least a little bit wrong. So it is hard to know where to invest time and money. I can't afford to fix it all! And if I fix one thing it is invariably only one out of five possible culprits.

I'm hoping that (thanks to your kindness) I can at least figure out approximately how it is working NOW. Then maybe I can start thinking about priorities.

Thanks for the ideas.

Christian

niftyc

these are more recent modifications

Wow Erich this is the best picture I have found yet of the near-boiler piping. This is very helpful and I haven't seen it before. However, I think everything above (the puzzles I found) were added long after the original piping. Thanks so much for the pointer. Christian

Erich_3

You need to be a detective

You can probably conclude that your system was originally piped that way or close to it. Now here is where you need to be a detective in your own house. Look for remnants of pipes and brackets that may be lurking about. Does you system work as a vapor system or as a low pressure steam system. A vapor system is more efficient because it lowers the boiling point of water thus saving energy. Does the town that you live in have a building permits section? Sometimes you can find plans there. Do you know who owned the house back then? Might be some family members that you can talk to. Are there any old tags or labels still present? Any retired plumbers or steam fitters in your area?