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toyotomi hot water heater

Wayco Wayne_2
Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
in THE MAIN WALL
on hydro air lowers the capacity. If he doesnt have enough capacity that would be counter productive. Sounds like it needs some adjusting at the very least. WW

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Comments

  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    home heating

    We recently replaced our oil burning furnace with a Toyotomi hot water heater. We have central air/heating (hydroair) system. The plumber told us this unit would be perfect but we just discovered that it doesn't heat the water higher than 150 - 160 degrees and the house just doesn't seem to ever feel warm and the unit runs nonstop. We have 3 zones and domestic hot water. the house is approx 2800 sf. Did the plumber use this hot water heater for the wrong application, to heat our house & domestic hot water? How should we fix it? I'm ready to lose my mind.

  • kpc_43
    kpc_43 Member Posts: 21
    misapplied

    product. It should be used for domestic water heating... not space heating... got pictures?
  • maine rick
    maine rick Member Posts: 107


  • maine rick
    maine rick Member Posts: 107


    what is the model number toyo makes three different units.
    the one they make for home heating is OM-180.
    the other two units are for hot water only.
  • Erich_3
    Erich_3 Member Posts: 135
    Toyotomi Models

    Which model do you have? Is it an OM-148 or an OM-180 or an OM-180B? The OM-148 is an on demand oil fired water heater that will save a lot of money on oil. It is only to be used as a water heater. The OM-180 is used for both domestic hot water and heating. You can go to the toyotomiusa web site and look at the installation manual to verify that. Was a heat loss calculation done on your house? It may be that the system was not piped correctly. Look at the installation manual. As a general rule, if it is running all the time you are losing the "on demand" benefit. The OM-180 has a maximum water temperature of 180 degrees. If you have the OM-148 you need to stop using it for heating. The model numbers are on the front panel.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    toyotomi

    It is a OM-180...sorry I forget to mention that. The unit runs every 10 minutes....24/7..I'm not kidding. I am in CT and we used 1/4 tank of oil in one week. Temps have been low but the house has been recently renovated with all new insulated walls and energy efficient windows. It just doesn't feel right.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    toyotomi

    we do have the OM-180. It runs with a hydro-air unit that was installed previously. The guage on the toyotomi normally reads 150-170 degrees and the pressure guage sometimes drops to zero, sure wish I understood this stuff better. I am not sure that a heat loss calculation was done, but that is our next step. Thanks for your help. We want to convince the plumber that we would like to swap it out for a boiler, perhaps a Buderus, at no extra cost, unless the Buderus is more expensive,we would pay him the difference.
  • EJ hoffman
    EJ hoffman Member Posts: 126
    Why does the pressure gauge drop to 0?

    Post some picks. Just swapping boilers may not cure your problems, sounds like you need to correct a few other items first
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    toyotomi

    i agree....like get rid of the hydro air for heating. we have no problems with the AC...I'm ready to put the baseboard back in the 2 bedrooms we removed it from. Luckily, I had them leave all the baseboard in the rest of the house because I wasn't convinced it would work from the get go....the house has never heated properly since we did it, and they blamed the old burnham furnace we had....replaced the furnace and still not good. I'll go take some pics now.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    pictures

    Okay, here are the pics, hope it helps. It might help to tell you that this is a one story home, so it is very long. We do have a room above the garage which is heated by a second air handler, which we have had no problems, but now with the water being produces at a lower temp, it doesn't warm up very well. I would say it is approx 50' from the boiler and is on the second floor... a LONG way for the hot water to travel. We have insulated the pipes and have wrapped the duct with insulation and added a layer to the flex duct.
  • Marc_17
    Marc_17 Member Posts: 13


    Do you have priority set for the indirect??? Between the indirect and the hydroair coils, if they are all calling at the same time, you might not have enough BTU's to keep up with demand.

    I would imagine that CT has been down in the 20's the last few nights.

    The coils might be too large for the boiler to supply, turning down the fan speed on the air handlers might help reduce the delta between supply and return.
  • EJ hoffman
    EJ hoffman Member Posts: 126
    Do your pumps have check valves in them?

    You should also buy two copies of pumping away from this site one for you and one for your plumber/installer.
  • Erich_3
    Erich_3 Member Posts: 135
    Dip Switches and Piping

    What position are the dip switches set to? They are on the circuit board. Your boiler piping is not according to the installation manual. The expansion tank should be on the supply line and not the return line. The installation manual shows a flat plate heat exchanger for the DHW storage tank. From your images it looks as if the storage tank is piped directly to the supply. What is the total length of the chimney liner and the exhaust pipe? It should be no more than 25 feet. Direct venting works best. I can see 4 circulators. What are they connected to? Are any connected to your baseboard? If not, they should be. What letter is after the OM-180 on your model number plate? The OM-180 is rated at 148,000 BTU/h. which will probably be enough if you are only using the baseboard.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    toyotomi

    The total length of the chimney liner & vent is approx 18'. The 4 circulators go to 1 - air handler (2T)for upstairs room above the garage; 2 - 1st floor air handler (3T); 3 - emergency baseboard (left because the heating has never worked properly- limited use if any); 4 - domestic hot water tank.

    Not sure what dip switches are so I have attached a close up of the circuit board.

    the letter after the 180OM is A.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10


    yes, there are check valves. I should take a look at the books available...thanks
  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
    when I see this thread title..

    ..at a glance I think it says " Toni Iomi " ...I think of this song

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBsJjVS8aPA&amp;feature=related

  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
    toniiommi

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRwwYWlbP2U
  • Erich_3
    Erich_3 Member Posts: 135
    Dip Switch Location

    That is not the main control board. It is located under a cover on the upper side of the heater. There are 3 dip switches (small switches that have 2 positions). Look on the front panel and see if there is the letter "B" after the 180 near the serial number. There are two different installation manuals depending on if it is an "A" model or "B" model. Do you have the installation manual? If not, you need to download it or get it from the installer. Can you try and shut down the two hydro coils and try heating with only the baseboard. Does it heat well? Do you know the model number and BTU requirements for your hydro coils? Is your indirect water tank a Super Stor? If so which model? The Super Stor is rated for both 180 and 200 degree boiler water but it appears that your heater is not producing 180 degree water.
  • Erich_3
    Erich_3 Member Posts: 135
    Installaion Manual

    Here is the location for the installation manual for the "A" model:
    http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/manuals/OM-180 Installation.pdf
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10
    dip switch

    thanks, you have been very helpful...this will at least give me great questions to ask the plumber. We do have the Supor Stor. I'll have to look up the model #. I printed out the installation manual. the plumber did not leave that with me. We have shut down the hydro and turned on the baseboard. The heat coming from the fin tube is not as hot as it used to be that's for sure. I'm going to call Toyotomi this morning. They are located right here in CT, my hometown, so I am hoping to get some answers. I'm also sending the specs on our house to the plumbing supply store so that they can plug the info into the a program to tell me what size furnace I need. I'll let you know my result.

    Thanks again. I think we are getting close.
  • Paul Fredricks_9
    Paul Fredricks_9 Member Posts: 315


    I have seen issues with the Toyotomi due to the lower output temperature. If the old system ran at 200 degrees max there would definitely be less output with the Toyotomi and it's 175 max. You'll nned to check the heat loss on each individual zone and compare that to what the airhandlers can do at 175.

    The dipswitches handle differential with the aquastat setting. The 180 can be used as a water heater, in which case the differential would be set low, I think it's 3 degrees. The units come factory set at 16 degree differential which should be fine for most heating applications. The differential can also be set at 32 degrees, but in you case I think that would make things worse.
  • Erich_3
    Erich_3 Member Posts: 135
    Owner's Manual

    Do you have the owner's manual? Here is the problem as I see it. You have an "on demand" water heater that does not have enough output. If you look at the flow chart for this model you will see that the flow is cut in half when the temperature of the incoming water is 40 degrees. This is a common temperature for incoming cold water at this time of year in Connecticut. The chart for the OM-180A using an incoming cold water temperature of 40 degrees shows a flow rate of 3.1 GPM at 120 degree hot water temperature. The maximum setting for hot water is VERY HOT which should be 176 degrees. Keep in mind that the OM-180 is a hot water heater that does not have enough capacity for your needs. I suggest that you look at a System 2000 boiler and use the baseboard system exclusively. You will save money and be warmer. Look here: http://www.energykinetics.com/index.shtml
  • Paul Fredricks_9
    Paul Fredricks_9 Member Posts: 315


    The 40 degree incoming doesn't come into play here as he's not using it as a direct water heater, he's using an indirect as another zone.

    The big question is if the air handlers are rated for enough heat output at 175 degree input. It doesn't sound like they are. A heat loss for the entire structure as well as each zone is called for.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10


    thanks everyone for your advice and expertise. After going through 1/2 tank of oil in 2 weeks in temps not lower than 20 degrees, I called the plumber and told him to replace the toyotomi with a Buderus. Our local Granite Supply ran the numbers on the house and recommended G215-4.

    Wish me luck!
  • Erich_3
    Erich_3 Member Posts: 135
    Buderus

    Make sure you retain the installation and operator's manuals for the Buderus. Have it put in writing that the boiler shall be installed according to the installation manual. It would be a good idea to have all of the baseboard connected and operational at this time. Was a heat loss done of your house? Has your plumber been trained by Buderus? Now is the time to ask.
  • totally frustrated
    totally frustrated Member Posts: 10


    we did have a heat loss done, by 2 companies, and the plumber is doing his own....great advice.. I will be sure to inquire.
  • Cwtactics
    Cwtactics Member Posts: 1
    Toyo 180 burner failing

    I have a toyo om 180. The burner electrodes turn black with oil like residue around them. I have changed the nozzle to not produce so much supply of oil but it has not solved the problem. It is as if it is burning to rich or not hot enough to burn off the fuel. What would you suggest to remedy the problem
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