Do I need a condensate tank and feed pump?

Unknown

then there must be orifices(graduated rad valves),, something is letting steam <i>puff back</i> to the return tank,, how`s the system pressure?<BR><BR>Dave

Steve Garson_6

Do I need a condensate tank and feed pump?

This is related to my other thread:

My Smith Model 19 Series 6 boiler has a condensate tank and feed pump. The vent shoots out steam at high velocity when the entire system gets hot, even though the pressuretrol is set at .5 psi.

Is it possible that this system doesn't even need the tank? The EDR has been reduced by perhaps 15% since it was designed as a result of radiators being removed over the years as space was converted to hot air.

How can I determine this? Should I shut off the valve from the tank Iand disconnect the motor power) and see how much water appears in the watch glass before the low water shut-off shuts off the burner?

Based on the 3.5gph firing rate and 80% efficiency, I calculate condensate of .87 gallons/minute or 13 gallons in 15 minutes

If the Smith 19-6 is the same capacity as the present 19A-6, then it has a 56 gallon water capacity

Does anyone have a sense of how many gallons are used going from the "normal" water line to the lower part of the watch glass?

Any thoughts?

Unknown

Steve Garson

It dosen`t take much steam pressure to make it spew,, besides your tank is the only vent.
Sounds like you have traps leaking somewhere and you need to find them.
Happy hunting, and Good Luck!

Dave

Steve Garson_6

There are no traps on the entire system.

I added main vents.

Steve Garson_6

Traps

A number of years back, all the returns, which were under the concrete, were replaced. I wonder if there were traps in the past.

Dan C.

How old is the boiler steve?

Steve Garson_6

The boiler is 10 years old.

Steve Garson_6

System pressure is set at .5psi. But the pressure gauge won't measure that low pressure.

Jack_44

condensate pump/vent issues

Steve -

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the vent of the receiver (the tank collecting the condensate) IS the main vent in a pumped return. You do not need other vents.

A better angle may be your question of needing a pumped return in the first place. I suspect only a genuine pro could positively answer that question. I also suspect the answer is you don't need a pumped return, unless the returns are REALLY long or you've got motorized zone valves or ... .

If you are blowing steam from the condensate receiver, you've got failed trap(s). Check not only the thermostatic traps at the rads, but the F&T's as well. The flash steam (what you're seeing out the vent) will eat your pump alive.

Lots of perfectly good steam systems have been "improved" to the point of non-functionality. A toast to the guys here who work so hard to redeem the butchery.

Steve Garson_6

Thanks for your comments. The system has no traps at all. All one pipe steam.

Unknown

I

agree with John, many return tanks are not needed but installed by the unknowledgeable.
Orifices work well if the steam pressure is very low,, there is another thread here about rigging-up/making a manometer to check his pressure,, dig around, its a good read.

Dave

Unknown

All one pipe steam.

Oh, OK,,,then there will be no orifices.
Puffing return tank issues must be related to system pressure then.

Dave

Steve Garson_6

What do you mean by Orifices work well with low pressure.

Unknown

Sorry Steve,

I mentioned orifices before I knew your system was 1 pipe,,, they will not apply to yours. But do read the thread here about rigging-up/making a manometer to check his pressure.

Dave

Steve Garson_2

Installation manual specs a condensate tank

I just noticed that the Smith installation manual specs a condensate receiver with:
1. 29 gallon capacity
2. 3.04 gpm pump
3. 1.52 evap rate fired at capacity

So I guess this means it really should have a tank??

Steamhead (in transit)

On one-pipe steam

if you add a return tank and pump, you must install a trap on each drip line from the steam main. This is the proper place- NOT on the main return at the tank. You can find diagrams of this on page 176 of Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating".

Or, you can use a False Water Line, as shown on page 31 of "Lost Art".

Whichever method you use will keep the steam out of the returns.

But before doing either of these, see if the system runs properly with straight gravity return. If it does, dump the pump.

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Unknown

Tanks/Pumps

Are just an easier way to explain the condensate return process Steve, I do not know your system, but most are not needed on LP systems.
I`m sure Frank or Gordo will say the same.

Dave

Steamhead (in transit)

Not necessarily

the I&O manual I downloaded for the 19A gives receiver sizing information but does not state you can't use gravity return on this boiler.

Edit: Great minds think alike!

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