Here's a coupla purdy systems...

Dobber

Mark
Have you looked at the new uponor CCN controls. Very slick, also pricey but would fit quite nicely with this type of job.

Very Nice
Dobber

Mark Eatherton

Kudos to Sean and Chris...

Enjoy!

ME

Mark Eatherton

That was the snowmelt system... Here's the house system!

Enjoy!

ME

Mark Eatherton

Here's some of the interior...

I'm jealous :-)

ME

singh

Very Nice Mark!

Kudos to the guys.

I don't see any radiators on the interior pics, so I'm guessing all radiant?

How many zones, any air/ventilation, a home like that most likely has sophisticated controls, is an automation system connected to the mechanicals? Do you guys do the pump wiring also, very neat also.

Devan

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Ross_7

preferred

Mark,

Is the Knight your preferred boiler for all installs now or is that what was spec'd? Also, how is that Contender been running at your house? BTW great job by the installers.
Ross

Mark Eatherton

Devan,

The 18,000 square foot house has 22 zones of RFH, with the tubing at 9" OC throughout for maintaining ultra high efficiency over wood and appropriate thin carpet.

There are 4 air handlers for AC and humidity control. One of them acts as a second stage to the great room. Load exceeded capacity of the floor due to infiltration.

The home is controlled via Crestron. I forgot to take a picture of the interface, done through Taco ZVC's. It's a beaut.

This GC is the best GC we have in our company. He never shops us, always uses us if it's hydronic and pays on time. A rareity in these times.

We take total responsibility for our systems including the DHWCR. The plumbers bring us water piping (H&C) to the storage tanks, and we take it from there. The electricians bring us power to the disconnect, and we take it from there.

The tanks are fully isolated and unioned so we can pull a tank and leave the other tank on line.

The WILO is one of the first WILO's to be brought over by WILO, and it doesn't speak English :-) It came over before they had their Top S in stock, hence the mix of manufacturers. The Snowmelt was done much later, and hence all WILO circulators.

The snowmelt serves three separate zones, one of which is a year round party party patio in the back of the house with a custom 1 man 5 woman hot tub :-)

The owner asked me if it was OK for him to fire the patio zone for human comfort. I advised against it from the standpoint of being a good steward of the land, but told him it probably would help knock the chill off if he wanted. This guy could afford to burn dollar bills to keep warm, but he also understand stewardship and paid us extra (high density tubing, modcon boilers) for overall system efficiency.

An interesting aside, it had gotten down to 32 degrees overnight last night. I showed up to commission the system. We had it in "construction mode" meaning a flat reset curve (65 degree water at 65 degrees outside, 120 degrees at 0 outside) and all but one zone of the 22 was satisfied. When I went to that zone, I found the owners wife in the room with the window open... She said "It is HOT in here" (it was 68 degrees F) I explained to her (radiant newby) how things worked, and told her if she thought it was hot now, to wait a while... She closed the window and took off the leather jacket she was wearing.

Anyway, I would have to say that for an all natural gas system (non geo hybrid) this is the best system we've ever installed.

The snowmelt system has all three boilers cascaded together with a minimum temp of 100 degree F glycol when it is 45 degrees F outside, and 140 degree F fluid when at zero degrees F outside. Each zone has its own ETL moisture sensor in the slab, and can fire independently of the other zones if needed or wanted (blowing, drifting snow that the sensor might not "see")

Thanks for the Kudos. I am very proud of the quality my guys put into this one, along with the extra effort, which shows they are proud as well.

ME

Mark Eatherton

Ross

Yes, Knight is our current prefferred model.

The MC in my home is doing great. Never misses a lick, just don't have the same access to the SIT control that Lochinvar allows, and it is the control that makes the boiler. ANyone can buy a Gianonni heat exchanger. It's how it's control that makes all the difference in the world.

We still spec the 50 on smaller jobs, and HTP has come a long ways from their first version. Just missing the control capability and a cranky customer service department IMHO.

ME

scott markle_2

Old school air scoop with the Spirotop? why not use a Spirovent and get those little bubbles?

Those tanks are sort of like reverse indirects, with the boiler water in the tank and the domestic water in the coils. How do you like this design? What do you see as the advantages? How hot does the boiler side of the tank need be to provide a steady 125f DHW output?

I wouldn't be jealous. The way things are going people with this kind of money may need small armies to keep the peasants from storming the gates

BTW- what is high density tubing ?

I hate to be predictable with my opinions, but as far as stewardship goes, "you can't have your cake and eat it too" Maybe it's just me, but amidst the wreckage of our economic system conspicuous consumption seems more arrogant than ever.

Nice work, politics aside

jackchips_2

If I

was a system, I wouldn't mind being one of ME's or one of the other fine installers on this site.

Nice work.

Jack

Plumdog_2

Those little piglets

Trying to understand the way the plumbing works on the fill system. I see a tee between the backflow preventer and PRV coming from one of the pressure tanks; a bucket blocking the view on the other one. To me it is an excellent idea to seperate from the potable (how do domestic bladder-type tanks hold up with Glycol or other treatment?

gerry gill

that is one really SWEET setup!

you have some first rate guys in your shop..well done! they bring credit to the industry, thats for sure..

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[Deleted User]

Scott...

In a previous life, I was an expert witness against a major rubber manufacturer. We hired a company called Failure Analysis to prove or disprove some of the claims the rubber company was making. Their claim was that conventional scoops don't work as well as MBR (micro bubble resorbers), so we hired F.A. to test them.

What they found was that both products took the O2 content to the same level in the water. The MBR did it quicker, but within 24 hours, they both got the 02 to the same level. The MBR cost about 10 times the scoop.

Another interesting aside, when they shut the circulator off, i.e. during the summer, the 02 content went back up to a higher level. Anything that is not metallic will allow oxygen back in, like packing glands, rubber diaphragms on tanks, gaskets on pumps, and even 02 barrier PEX...

As for removal of free air, they are both equally effective. As most well seasoned hydronicians know, the key is getting all or at least most of the free air out of the system in the first place. Most of the MBR sales types would have you believe that their product is so good that it will suck oxygen off the next planet. They have inferred to me that if there is any trapped pockets of air in a system, that their product is so efficient that it will clear those pockets too...

I had a rogue bubble working its way around my own homes one pipe system, so I installed an MBR, and guess what. The rogue bubble kept rolling around in my one pipe system. I finally got rid of it by injecting liquid soap detergent into the system. Gone in less than 5 minutes.

Most of the MBR manufacturer's really started selling their products in response to "air problems" in heating systems. In 99% of the problematic "air problems" I've seen, the pump was in the wrong place in relationship to the expansion tank. And yes, their product was effective in curing that "problem", but had the pump been properly placed, and a conventional scoop been properly applied, they wouldn't have had the recurring air problem in the first place.

I've been employing conventional air scoops without a hitch for 35 years. It has passed the test of time.

But to each his own.

The Spiro TOp has the advantage of being capped off to allow testing through the device, and it has proven to be a more reliable means of venting free air. Hence, inexpensive air scoop and effective air vent.

As for the reverse indirects, you only need boiler water temps around 10 degrees F hotter than your final potable temps. So to generate 130 degree water, I max the boilers out at 140, which keeps the boiler in the full condensing mode even during DHW production. More expensive, yes. Worth the money? Absolutely! It's is easy to sell the added value.

The tubing was installed at 9" O.C., hence higher density than say 12" O.C. It's the same ol' Wirsbonor HePEX, just a higher quantity per square foot (1.4 linear foot per square foot) which allows us to operate at a lower temperature.

Conspicious consumption is the norm in this guys neighborhood, unfortunate as it may seem. The homes in this hood are gawdy to say the least.

And I hear you regarding the peasants. I'm working 5 different jobs trying to keep from becoming one :-)

Thanks for the kudos. I will pass it on to the deserving wrenchers of the company. I only design them, sell them and manage them.

ME

[Deleted User]

Thanks Gerry..

Coming from an icon like yourself says a lot. I will forward the kudos.

ME

[Deleted User]

Oink oink!

What you can't see is the fast fill bypass around the pressure reducing valve. Theres a shut ball valve back there. I will try and get a better (bucketless) picture when I go back for the HO101 next week. The local inspectors think it (the pig) should be mandatory. But don't hold your breath. With the economy doing what it is, the HBA is looking for every corner to cut to lower their cost. Amazing what power they hold over the code authorities...

The conventional expansion tanks have held up well. No problems yet.

ME

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Mark....Air scoops

I also don't use the new supercharged air removers, however, I have found that the B&G IAS model (orifice design) to be significantly more effective initially than the air scoop. What's your experience?

Boilerpro

Mark Eatherton

BP...

IAS = Inline Air Separator, no?

http://www.bellgossett.com/homeowners/BG-airseparator.asp

Interesting concept, but can't say I've had an occasion to try one. Looks pretty simple, and I am a big K.I.S.S. fan (no, not the rock and roll group :-)

Thanks for the heads up.

ME

Mark Eatherton

I saw it in Beta form...

and I know our local rep has it in his mountain cabin, but haven't really seen much more of it.

This house has a LOT of functions being handled by the Crestron system. Enough to boggle this persons mind. Not sure if the Uponor control would have this much capability.

ME

Mark Eatherton

Thanks Jack

ME

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Yep....

IAS = Inline air seperator. Just a hunk of iron like the rest, the same price, but seems to work better. I am not sure if it is still available this way in the smaller sizes, but it has a 3/4 inch tapping on top to allows a diaphragm compression tank to be mounted above the air seperator, as recommended, instead of below where it collects dirt from the system.
BTW....What or how do mount your compression tanks to the wall with? I always admired that and get frustrated every time I am installing them.

Boilerpro

[Deleted User]

10\" I.P.S. uni strut clamps...

I have to give credit to one of my former employees for coming up with that idea.

We use two per tank, with two pieces of strut.

ME

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Thanks!..NM