Strange flowoing sound in pipes

nicholas bonham-carter

in a 1-pipe system you should not use the radiator valve at all.if you close it off, even a new one it will still allow a small amount of steam into the rad resulting in a rad full of water.
when i want to turn off 1 rad, i turn my hoffman vent upside down [put a good coat of teflon tape on the threads].this traps air inside preventing steam from entering.
not quite sure where you are hearing this flowing noise-2nd floor, basement?it may be that your steam pressure is much too high due to a clogged pigtail [should be ounces of pressure].
there is of course condensate flowing in every steam pipe especially close to the boiler,but usually unheard.--nbc

rih

Strange flowing sound in pipes

The situation: a one pipe steam system. Second floor of a two-family wooden house. Two rooms are each heated by one pipe that joins with the other at a U junction in the basement with a main pipe that goes to the furnace. On the way to the U joint, these pipes go through our bedroom walls. The radiator in one of the rooms has a valve that cannot be turned off, something I've never seen.

The problem: when the heat is turned on in the morning (more then that any other time) it sounds like a river is flowing through these pipes–like a faucet has been turned on. I have never seen this sound described in any heating book, on any forum, or anywhere, period. There is a slight ping of a water hammer, but this is not a problem in terms of noise. The flowing sound is and has woken me up many times. (The occupants get up at 5 AM, and one of them has problems with the cold, so she turns the heat on immediately.) The noise continues until the furnace shuts off. I don't hear this problem anywhere else in the upstairs or downstairs systems.

This problem is new. Started last year. Nothing had changed with the heating system that I know of to cause it. I do notice that one of the pipes has some play if I tug on it in the basement. I also notice that the pipes are touching, at least in the basement. I jammed some insulation between them where I could, but it hasn't helped.

Our heating contractor has no idea what is going on. He did adjust the pitch of the pipes–that reduced some water hammer. His suggestion was turning this part of the system into a two pipe system.

All I can think of is that the pipes have moved and are resonating somehow, either with the walls or each other. (Sometimes I can hear some ticking.)

The obvious solution is to replace the radiator valve so that the heat can be shut off in that room, something I don't think the occupants will mind. What they will mind is the cost. We're also instulating the house–perhaps that will help in terms of reducing furnace time.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Something I missed?

EasilyFound_2

So Are You Saying . . .

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but your answer was something that I had never heard before. If I do not want a radiator to get hot, rather than close the valve, I should leave the valve open and turn the air vent upside down? I have one radiator in my living room that I've kept cold by closing the valve, and have not noticed any problems doing it that way. I didn't know that there was any other way to keep a radiator cold.

nicholas bonham-carter

1-pipe rad valve

yes, the valves usually never seal completely when closed, and therefore allow a small bit of steam into the radiator.the condensate has no way to get out while the valve is closed, and can temporarily lower your water line.when the valve is openned, the rushing out of trapped water can cause water hammer.
i have only done the trick with hoffman vents, but perhaps other makes of vent behave the same way.
you have created a thermostatic vent with yourself as the temperature control mechanism!--nbc

EasilyFound_2

I See . . .

what you mean about creating a thermo vent with me as the temp control mechanism: when the room gets too hot, I just turn the air vent upside down, and turn it up when I want more heat. I guess that is not good on the threads!

Justin_9

I'm actually having the same exact problem. So far i can't find any solutions, the only thing i can think of is that the radiator might need to be bled. Please let me know if you figure out how to stop this.
Thanks!

[Deleted User]

Here I go hawking Dan's books again...... Dan, the owner of this site, has written probably the best books available on steam heating systems.(See "A Steamy Deal" at the bottom of the page) I would strongly suggest you get "We Got Steam Heat". It's easy reading,crammed full of facts, suggestions and explanation about steam heating systems. It's written for the homeowner. By the time you finished it you'll have avery good understanding of your steam system. and I would consider it a must for those that have steam systems.

TRVs:
You guys might be interested in these:
http://www.maconcontrols.com/pdfs/OPSK1204.pdf

Danfoss TRVs:
Animations as to how they work. Note:These animations show TRVs for hot water systems- the steam ones are very similar - see the link below for one pipe steam systems:
http://na.heating.danfoss.com/Content/161a8b0f-a195-42b2-9487-7ee4083398cf_MNU17392440_SIT209.html

Here's the one for 1 pipe systems:
http://na.heating.danfoss.com/PCMPDF/RA2000 1PS-DS.pdf

https://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=101

These are designed to work on low pressure Maximum 1 1/2 PSI
(Your steam system should be way lower than this.) TRVs don't last forever and should be renewed every few years.
Generally you're supposed to use the same manufacturer of all your radiators. Take a look at the Danfoss animations as it gives you a good idea as to how TRVs work.