steam trap question

Casey_5

I had a new boiler installed approx. 5 years ago. Since then, we have been suffering with SEVERE banging on the pipes. I have had the oil company here many times and they can not seem to fix this problem. We have 2 floors of radiators, 4 upstairs, 1 downstairs. The upstairs radiators are the main culprits and the main problem is one room with 2 radiators side by side in it. They have vents installed and will release air, usually when first delivering heat and then the banging begins !! Any info would be greatly appreciated ! Thanks, Casey

Brad Blazoff

No steam trap in basement main- Should I install one?

I have a 2 pipe steam boiler system. I read the book "we got steam heat". In the book, Dan says that there should be a steam trap at the end of my main steam header. In my system, I have a vent at the end of my steam header and a vent at the end of my condensate header. These 2 lines then drop down parallel to each other. The main steam drop then turns into the condensate line at about 30 inches off of the floor. Does this piping arrangement serve the same purpose as a steam trap? Should I install one? Also, in the book Dan says to not let anyone install vents in your radiators. I have some vents on the lower level that hiss upon startup. Do I even need these vents? Also, how can I tell if my system is a vapor system or a steam system?

Brad White_202

If

the return lines drop below the waterline, that indeed is the trap you seek. Some of the first vapor systems were piped this way and at low pressure, worked elegantly. The radiators also would have vents. (My neighbors have such a system in their 1880's Victorian. We have HW via a Vitodens. Still, we are jealous in a way

What I do not know in your case is the height of your waterline. 30 inches sounds a bit high for many residential boilers and short of boiler-worship, your boiler may not be on a pedestal.

The fact that you have air vents tells me that the waterline seal was the way. Traps are air vents at first and with an air vent there, I see less need.

"Vapor" is a sub-set of "steam". Both are steam systems but vapor systems worked on very low pressures, sometimes even vacuum but often less than one pound of pressure.

Brad Blazoff

STEAM TRAP

Brad, thank you for answering my post. My boiler is propped up a couple of inches on a concrete pad. And my water guage glass is full. It is actually over the viewing area. And, this guage, at the top is about 34 inches from the floor. My original problem was water hammer. And man was it terrible. It sounded like I had a 800lb. gorrilla in the basement beating my pipes with a tire iron. Anyway, we lived with the water hammer for 4 years until I ran across this website, bought a book, and learned that all I needed was a silly little vent. Now, I want to know every detail about this old system. I find this stuff terribly interesting. There must be a thousand different ways to heat your home. My steam pressure control is set just above .5! Thanks again for answering my post.

Brad White_202

There are less healthy addictions!

But not many, than an interest in steam systems.

My suspicion is that with 4 inches clearance, between the return pipe and the waterline, your wet return occasionally becomes a dry return which can be noisy because it sometimes has steam allowed to pass into it as your boiler waterline changes in operation or your pressure fluctuates.

I suspect that your previous boiler had a much higher waterline. Many old "snowman" steam boilers had chest-high waterlines. I am replacing some 1925 Smith 60's with waterlines over 7 feet above the floor. Glad there are no wet returns there...


If the system is a "water-sealed vapor system" (my term only, there is probably a better, more accurate term and Steamhead among others would likely know), then I suspect a couple of solutions:

1) Re-pipe the returns lower to the floor with new material and make sure that you rise via a Hartford Loop into the boiler. (That is the best seal of all One can justify this if the return piping is old, original iron and may be clogged or corroded.

You "could" pipe this in copper, being below the waterline, otherwise iron, Sch. 80 (thicker than standard wall) if you can find it.

Put a valved tee at each end and a valve into the boiler so that you can flush it out. If you do use copper, use Type L, not the thinner wall type M. (Type K, the thicker wall type, in hard draw tubing might be available in refrigeration supply houses and how cool would that be? )


2) If the return pipe replacement is too much, a false waterline may be in your future.

Steamhead (in transit)

Brad B, if you could

take some pics of radiators with and without vents on them, and some views of the boiler room, we might be better able to ID your system.

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