Please Pick Apart this Install

brad_26

I'm going to post pictures of a MegaSteam install that cost me $6200. After reading "We Got Steam Heat", my limited time in "The Lost Art of Steam Heat" and looking at piping diagrams in the Burnham MegaSteam manual, I've found some errors with the install. If any professionals would be willing to pick apart the system then I would be all ears.

One last thing, the system has a Honeywell Subtractive Pressuretrol. The Pressuretrol is set with a main psi of 0 and a Differential of .5 psi. I have my own ideas here but I'd love to hear others.

Thanks,
Brad

steveex

That my friend is a very picular header, water feeder always above water line, B-

Steamhead (in transit)

Doesn't look too bad

I'd worry about the pitch of the steam lines coming off the header- in that situation they should pitch up from the header to where they jump up to ceiling height. But if these pipes don't bang and the system heats well, you should be OK.

I would not have used that flexible faucet supply tube to connect to the feeder.

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brad_26

Can you let me know what is peculiar about the header?

Here is what I'm worried about with the system:

1. The return makes an incline right before it gets back to the boiler (no shown in manufacturers install manual).
2. The water feed is below water level and I think it is oriented in the wrong direction. Shouldn't the strainer side be pointed down in case you need to flush it?
3. The new pipes that connect to the existing loop are now so close together that it's difficult to insulate properly. Seems like they could have run them parallel.
4. Missing a valve on the 90 degree elbow that brings the wet return into the loop (not sure of my wording, hope that makes sense). This is in the manufacturers recommended piping, I think for flushing purposes.
5. The Pex tubing, unsupported electrical, non-flexible oil line connection to the burner (yeah it flexes but I don't want to take the chance of it breaking), and the lack of some type of backup oil filter just make the install seem unprofessional to me (others have pointed some of these items out to me as I was unaware of a "Good" install's characteristics before this week).
6. Is the hole in the vent pipe oversized? The draft control (on the vent pipe) never moves from it's fully closed vertical position yet the installer did a combustion analysis. Seems like that should swing atleast a small amount. If it's not then couldn't you have too much draft?
7. The install manual does not show a vent pipe in this configuration as an option. All drawings show vent pipe coming off the boiler, straight up with the draft control, then slightly inclined from horizontal over to the flue.
8. Shouldn't the boiler be up off the ground? I asked this question and was told that we can't do anything because we need to have the correct "A" dimension. Can't you come off the boiler with 24" vertical pipe sections and then drop it back down so that you gain come clearance?
9. I would think the Main setting on the Pressuretrol should be at either .5 or 1.0 and then the Diff should be at .5 psi. I know that my house may not require a huge amount of pressure to heat properly, but if the main is set to 0 then might this cause a problem?
10. Last point, shouldn't you have a water meter with an automatic feed?

There are a couple other items that I wasn't pleased with regarding the install (never flushed the system until I called them back, whole house smelled of oil), wire nuts hooking the old boiler cut-off switch to the new boiler are hanging from the ceiling without anything around them.

These guys represented themselves as doing the job right. Maybe they did and I'm just being a little too picky?

Norm Harvey

You know how I feel about the install. Without the mentioning anything about the steam piping the rest of the job is atrocious. I can imagine that will pass inspection the way the electrical and oil line is.

Was there any permits involved? Likely not.

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Rich Kontny_3

???????

Brad,

Could be wrong Brad but why are you asking us to provide a free visual? Are we the pre-inspection group? Are you in over your head with this project? What is your full time job and are you willing to share your expertise for free like you are asking us? Are you perhaps one of those guys?

This is perhaps the boldest thread I have ever seen on this site. I for one will critique nothing as I smell liability!

Rich K.

Frenchie

water heater

Off topic, but what concerns me is in pic. 0307 it looks like rubber hose connecting the water heater to the house plumbing. That can't be good.

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Rich Kontny_3

Brad

Your silence leaves us room for assumptions. Please respond and prove others and myself wrong!

Rich K.

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Charlie from wmass

David I must agree

I am a plumber and a heating contractor, second generation in fact. I often see this type of installation around me and it is as often done by "proffessional"heating companies as it is by plumbers. The thing consumers do not know here in Mass is there is no license for heating system installers. There is a gas fitters license, oil burners license, a plumbing license, and even a pipe fitters license, but not heating system license so often the installer is not at all trained in proper installation. Apparantly they also can not read as any installation manuel would advise them on better ways to pipe a boiler than actually most steam boilers I come across.

brad_26

Boiler Install

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brad_26

Hmm, it looks as though I've offended some by asking questions. I apologize if I misinterpreted the possible uses of the site.

I did get multiple quotes for this job and this one was not the cheapest. I am a homeowner who did some research on my heating system before hiring a person to do the job. After listening to one guy tell me my system needed to have the pressure turned up to work correctly and another person told me that my old boiler was working just fine (he also supplied me with 225 gallons of oil each month for a 1200 square foot house), I finally found somebody who knew something about steam (he measured radiators, knew the copper piping that the last installer used was not correct, and some other basics about steam).

Rich, I'm not trying to be bold here. I reply to people on other forums about vehicle repair and stock analysis all the time as a way to help people out and exchange information. Admittedly, these are hobbies of mine and not my full time job. I do, however, have a degree in biomedical engineering and I wouldn't have any problem telling somebody why titanium is a good candidate for surgical implantation but most people don't ask me so I don't bring it up. I didn't mean to offend you or steal your hard earned knowledge. I totally respect your decision and understand if you do not want to answer any of my questions.

The company that did the work on this came recommended by a couple different people that deal with heating contractors. One of the guys did a very good home energy audit on my house. We walked through the house and analyzed every nook and cranny with a thermal imaging camera while taking notes and talking about ways to fix every spot. I was expecting the same attention to detail from the boiler installer that I received from the energy auditor.

The reason I mentioned that I paid $6200 wasn't because I thought it was too much, it was because I was wondering if I paid for a cheap job and got one or if I paid for a professional job and just didn't receive a professional job.

The reason I listed out all the possible problems was because I've spent hours attempting to learn about steam heat and I will need to bring these issues up with the gentleman who installed the boiler to be fixed. If he says, "Oh, that's not a problem" then I want to know if he's correct or if I should get somebody else to do the job.

I'm pretty thick skinned and I doubt there is much that could be said here that would offend me. If you tell me that I'm in the wrong place and "Harry Homeowner" shouldn't be messing around here then that is fine, I'll just need to spend more time reading and looking up all the old posts. That is where I've received most of my info so far and it has been a fantastic resource.

Thanks,
Brad

brad_26

That hose is actually a flexible line that is made to supply the hot water tank (I bought it from Lowes where it was marketed as a water heater supply, next to the hot water heaters). I would guess that it is rubber in the middle but on the outside it is a black, braided material. It is very much like the flexible stainless steel braided line but I think the braid in this is kevlar.

brad_26

There were not any permits. I've actually never heard of somebody getting a permit for a job of this type in my area but this is a first for me so I could be wrong. Does the town issue the permit?

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Rich Kontny_3

What I was waiting for

Brad,

OK I assumed and that was wrong! I hope you did not pay in full for this job as it is a mess and dangerous!


Rich

brad_26

Ok, I will address this with the company that I hired. It was paid for in full but I think that he will be responsive to my requests. Thanks for your help, I appreciate you taking your time to help me out.

Rich Kontny_3

Sign of the Times

Brad,

It is ever so important now days to screen and take references. Joe the plumber is not a plumber yet and was doing plumbing work without proper licenses etc.

With the complexities of today's systems and the liability factor you cannot be to careful. Unfortunately you came for advice after the install and after you paid for subpar work. We wish this on no one who hired someone in good faith when you thought they were legit. If it were a crew of mine I would have fired them on the spot or at the very least the day after I inspected the install.

Professionals do things to code, secure permits and welcome inspections from neutral third parties! This is why owners hire us!

Good luck chasing this down and if you need some more info let us know! We hate to see someone taken advantage of!

Rich K.