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High Eff Water Heaters

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Randy_30
Randy_30 Member Posts: 28
Our company just recieved the side by side test results of the phoenix water heater against cyclone, takahi instant and a couple of others I can't remeber. The test was done over a year period by PG&E in CA. The phoenix blew away the competition. Of the top of my head 14 to 20% more efficient than the cyclone and 10% over the instantaneous.

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  • Paul MacDougall
    Paul MacDougall Member Posts: 36
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    High Eff Water Heaters

    A customer of ours had asked to upgrade her water heater (gas fired chimney vented) to a higher effeciency model. We primarily install either Rudd or AO Smith, and I have looked over there websites and seems AO Smith offers the highest eff heater out of the two, the Vertex. However, the install is far more time consuming thena standard replacement. Has anyone had any experience installing the higher eff water heaters? What should I expect for special materials and time? ANy help would be much appreciated.
  • Bart Vaio
    Bart Vaio Member Posts: 56
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    Vertex

    These are good heaters but a few of the changes from a standard install are the following. PVC Venting, Electrical supply (120v), condensate removal. These heaters are louder than a "regular" heater and that should be taken into consideration if installed near the living space (indoors). They typically take at least 9 to 10 hours to install, sometimes significantly more.

  • John Mills_4
    John Mills_4 Member Posts: 43
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    They are not

    high efficiency models. If you look at the air being sucked out of the house causing lots of infiltration, they are really pretty inefficient. There are some commercial PVC vent models that have some pretty high efficiencies but most home units are standard tanks with an ventor on the top sucking in so much house air that the flue gases are cool enough to PVC vent.
  • mark ransley
    mark ransley Member Posts: 155
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    Hi E, Isnt the Vertex condensing with cold air intake low temp Pvc exhaust, the AO Cyclone is, I had one put in. What is EF, near 85 on Vertex? Most tanks are 55-65 EF. The highest Ng-Propane EF is tankless, they start at an EF of 82 and go to 93-94 EF, no tank matches that.
  • Bart Vaio
    Bart Vaio Member Posts: 56
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    Efficiency

    Heat transfer is getting around 96 to 97 percent out of the Phoenix, AO Smith is getting 96 as well, both condensing. If you have air infiltration that seems to be a seperate construction or design issue. Even the 90 percent units that draw combustion air from the surrounding area should have adequate combustion air provided.
  • bob eck
    bob eck Member Posts: 930
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    Take a look at installing tankless gas water heaters. They only use energy when hot water is required. I sell NORITZ chenk them out.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,383
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    Vertex

    I'd look at what sort of output your client needs, but condensing is hard to beat. Standby losses are not always well understood. I'm imagining that there is the possibility a smaller Vertex may happen and that could be the right fit for your clients.

    Yours, Larry
  • mark ransley
    mark ransley Member Posts: 155
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    Is that Eck in OP, I was thinking about tankless, I have a small Bosch at another location, its great.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,383
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    Here's a link...

    ... to the study that Randy mentioned. Interesting stuff!
    http://www.etcc-ca.com/images/stories/reswhtestreport1.pdf

    Yours, Larry
  • Randy_30
    Randy_30 Member Posts: 28
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    Thanks for the link. I didn't know they published on the web yet. We received a copy via email and I hadn't had time to read it. Table one tells a nice story for Phoenix. Oh did I mention there quiet. No muffler needed on this item. My customers don't even know there on.
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