Missing Temps on Vision Pro 8000

JohnG_3

Vision Pro 8000 thermostats, all under one year old, and the inside temperature indicator on all three units skips right over 64 and 66 degrees Fahrenheit! It doesn't matter whether the temperature is increasing or decreasing, all three thermostats jump between 63 <-> 65 <-> 67 degrees. One of the units is configured for steam and the other two for hot water.

Has anyone noticed this, and is it considered a defect or an intentional feature of the Honeywell Vision Pro 8000?

SusanC

Also would love to know why VisionPro 8000 displays kips degree

I also have a VisionPro 8000. It does the same thing, which I find strange in such a sensitive thermostat. One moment it registers 66°, then the next it registers 68°; this is when coming off a setback from 66° to 68°.

I asked about this on this forum recently but people answered only other parts of my thermostat question. I was just curious about this characteristic for academic reasons but not concerned with regard to house heating because the thermostat does well in controlling temperature in the house. The only complaint I actually have with this +/- 1 degree scale is that, on maintenance vs. setback, radiators tend not to heat up quite enough. I realize I could further reduce vent size on a radiator in the room with the thermostat, but at this point I have reached a quiet system and don't want to mess this up by further changing vent sizes; it took quite a while to reach the current state last heating season.

Would love to know why these thermostats like to jump 2° on the display.

chuckNJ

adaptive display value?

I have a 2.5 year old Vision 8000 unit on a steam system that I have been using and observing for that same period. It also has this rather odd behaviour regarding the displayed current ambient temp.

I have not found that this affects its operations, nor is it tied to any particlar value except the current set point. When you move the set point around in the vicinity of current ambient, the display value jumps about illogiclly. It seems to tend to follow the direction of shift of the set point, either up or down. As others describe, it also often jumps as the ambient approaches the setpoint, either from above or below.

I have concluded that the displayed current temp has some kind of adaptive and/or averaging function (perhaps also tied to rounding?) which defies rationality from the users perspective.

Perhaps this is a symptom of some element of Honeywell's control algorithm they don't want to discuss, but I certainly think it is poor ergonomics that it is visible to the user.

Unknown

My suggestion,,,

for you all is to get on the phone and talk to HW about it. Although I wonder if somewhere in the functions list you might find a way to change that. I personally have no experience with the 8000. And please, if you get a solid answer post it here for us? Thanks!

David Nadle

Yes, please share if you hear from Honeywell

I've had a VisionPro installed for over a year and I haven't noticed this problem at all or I'd call myself. I'm very curious to find out the cause.

GW

HW

we've done a bunch of IAQs (9000 series) (dual fuel HP/fossil) systems this year, and a few 8000s, have not heard of this. I must say HW has been great to talk to on the phone. gw

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SusanC

Still wondering - anyone from Honeywell reading this?

The reason I haven't called Honeywell is that although, for academic reasons, I'd like to know the reason for what seems a strange VisionPro 8000 display characteristic, it appears not to cause any problem in control or functioning of my steam system. It's all too easy to be classified as a pain in.... I would love it if someone would call Honeywell and report or if a present or past Honeywell employee would read this thread and clue us in.

I am very gratified that JohnG asked this question because now I am assured that this is a general VP8000 characteristic, not a characteristic of my specific thermostat(s)or location.

Whatever the reason, I believe Honeywell should include mention of this peculiarity prominently in the information they supply with the thermostat. The reason I say that is that the characteristic can lead the homeowner to replace the original VP8000 or obtain a second and/or change the installation location believing that either the thermostat is faulty or the location is bad. That happened to me; when the second thermostat acted in the same manner, I figured it was likely but not certain that it was a general VP8000 peculiarity.

David Nadle

Not so fast.

I have the same thermostat and have never seen it behave the way you've described. I think it's too soon to say this is a general characteristic of the VisionPro.

I used the contact form at honeywell.com to submit an inquiry but I think someone who has actually seen it happen should call.

If you set the thermostat setpoint to one of the skipped over values, at what temperature does the heat come on? Also, did you actually observe the display jump 2 degrees, or did you look away at some point, however brief?

Unknown

Is noone here willing to take the bull by the horns on this?

JohnG_3

Fair question

"Also, did you actually observe the display jump 2 degrees, or did you look away at some point, however brief?"

I watched the thermostat closely to directly observe the skipping behavior I mentioned. I did not look away. I am 100% positive that the unit skips temperatures as I mentioned in my original post.

JohnG_3

I will call Honeywell

I will volunteer to call Honeywell and report back here as to what they say.

It appears that the skipped temperatures are +/- 1 degree from the set point. For example, my set point was 65 degrees so the skipped temps were 64 and 66 degrees.

I agree that the behavior does not appear to adversely impact the operation of the thermostat. Nevertheless, I consider this a design flaw in the unit because the "Inside Temperature" display should simply report the ambient temperature and should not in any way be influenced by the internal algorithms used in the thermostat.

I just installed a new hot water heating system and one zone is having a problem producing enough heat to keep up with the heat loss. It is very annoying for the thermostat to be stuck on a reading of 63 for a long time. I don't know if the temperature is slowly rising to 65 or if it really is 63 due to not enough heat being produced. I have now placed $20 Radio Shack clock/thermometers near the thermostats to accurately monitor the temperature.

In almost all other respects I like the Honeywell Vision Pro 8000.

Unknown

OK,

Just because that's the way I am, impatient you might call it, I just spent 20 minutes on the phone with HW. 19 of those on hold. The answer is that it is normal operation. Their reasoning is that there is a +1/-1 differential on the setpoint and if you set your stat to say 65* and it displayed in 1* increments the temp indicator would be constantly bouncing back and forth between 64-65-66* and "drive you nuts". He went on to say that the stat controls so accurately that when you set it for a certain temp it will "stay right there". So there is nothing wrong with your collective stats. So, between the phone and posting this I have a 1/2 hour labor in this. Where do I send the bill?

nicholas bonham-carter

monitoring temps

taylor wireless indoor/outdoor thermometers are also useful, as you can put the outdoor unit in the area you are trying to monitor; and the indoor part in another area, and compare the difference .certain models also keep track of the max and min temps.you can usually monitor 3 remote locations with 1 indoor unit.i found them invaluable in reducing tennant "we're cold" calls.
now that my 1-pipe system works so much better i don't use them so much.--nbc

chuckNJ

I'm glad someone got through. thanks! Calling as a homeowner, I've been turned away by the voice menu system several times in the last couple hours - "please call back later due to unusually heavy call volume".

chuckNJ

I also want to indicate my observations are fully in agreement with John's and Susan's. It is a bit subtle, and you need to be primarily observing the thermosat's behaviour reporting current temp(as oppossed to your heating system's behaviour).

The issue can perhaps be most readily demonstrated with manual adjustment. If the system is stable at say 70, and you push the stat up to 71, there is a good chance that within about a few seconds the displayed ambient will also jump up to 71, and the system will not call for heat. Push it to 72, and then the heat will start, the stat may again quickly jump to 72, but the heat will for long enough to really move the ambient.

I totally agree that presenting this adaptive behaviour to the user in the form of inconsistently displayed "measurement" data this is lousy ergonomics. It is also software, so it is VERY possible that there is more than one version of the code out there. My stat, over two years old, is probably of fairly early production. Some of the same may still be out in the distribution channels, even if the reason some people do not see this problem is because it has been changed in later production. No manufacturer wants to admit to this kind of issue (or improvement if there has been one) because they don't want to be replacing product if they can possible explain away the symptom.

Unknown

APPARENTLY!!

You guys missed my post, go back a few and read my last.

John Mills_4

Be interesting

to hear the answer. My IAQ does that, most commonly at 70 to 68 in cool mode. I like it blustery in the summer I'll walk by and it is 70, 30 seconds later it drops to 68!

chuckNJ

MPF thanks for your call report

I actually did see it, and thanked you for it in my first response today. but I did it in reply to Johns email not yours. Did you call as a homeowner or pro?

My second email comments today are post your info.

As I suggested, there may be more than one version of software out there, explaining why some people report it does not happen, and it is unlikely the mfr would acknowledge that fact given the non-critical (just annoying) nature of the issue and potential cost in replacement demands. thanks again!

Unknown

Ok,,,not a problem,

just wanted to make sure, thought maybe someone missed it. I called as a pro, a pro who was a little ticked it took them making me listen to 19 minutes of recorded BS about trying to find the answer online before I got a real person. I did ask about the units that were not showing this inconsistency and he did kind of ruffle it over with "Hmph, someone is spending too much time watching their thermostat." I agree it could be a software update thing. Incidentally, during the 19 minutes i DID try to find an answer online including their "Thermostat Wizard". No luck there, I'll leave it at that. LOL...

JohnG_3

Thanks for calling

Honeywell and asking about this. I started this thread rather than call Honeywell because I figured I good get more and better information in less time here than with Honeywell customer support. I have called them before about something else with satisfactory results, and I might still call them about this.

It sounds like Honeywell's position is that "the thermostat is working properly and the observed behavior is a feature and not a bug." That's fine, but I would prefer a unit that accurately reports the ambient temperature without any linkage with the temperature control algorithm.

So I have a couple of questions:

1. Does anyone know of a thermostat similar to the Honeywell Vision Pro 8000, either from Honeywell or another vendor, that accurately reports the ambient temperature without the skipping behavior we've been discussing here?

2. If there is anyone from Honeywell reading this, can you offer me either some new software or replacement units that will behave as I describe in question #1? The installer setup menu is extensive and it does not seem like it would be very hard to offer another option for accurate temperature reporting.

JohnG_3

... if you set your stat to say 65* and it displayed in 1* increments the temp indicator would be constantly bouncing back and forth between 64-65-66* and "drive you nuts".

I don't buy this. If they really wanted to prevent the reported temperature from bouncing around, a little hysteresis would arguably be a better solution then what they have done. For example, say the temperature is 64 and increasing. You could then set the trigger point at 64.75 before displaying 65. Conversely, if the temperature is 65 and decreasing, you could set the trigger point at 64.25 before displaying 64. This would avoid the displayed temperature bouncing around. Of course, this assumes that the temperature sensor is capable of measuring the temperature with more precision than what is displayed.

SusanC

I also thank you for calling

You probably should send me the bill. The weird display hasn't bothered me much once I realized that the thermostat was controlling heating of the house satifactorily but I agree with JohnG above that, with proper design, the thermostat display could actually register the one degree changes without bouncing.

Also, as I noted in a previous post, I believe Honeywell should include mention of this in the description/instructions. Otherwise the homeowner thinks either the thermostat or its location is faulty, which can lead to replacement of the initial thermostat with a second one, which does exactly the same thing, or to unnecessary and wall-marring changes in thermostat location. That is what happened to me. Maybe I will brave the phone menu system some day and suggest this to Honeywell. That should cancel out my debt.

SusanC

I agree

Your suggestion would be a real improvement and would eliminate the possibility that the homeowner or professional would believe he/she had a faulty thermostat or location and would prevent unnecessary and potentially costly actions to remedy what is not actually a problem. Given the way the thermostat controls boiler firing, I would think the temperature sensor is capable of more precision than the display shows and that the display could be made to work as you suggest.

Unknown

You're all welcome,

I was only kidding about the bill.

This is the kind of thing I like to know beforehand so I'm on top of it when I run into it in the field. I could have very easily installed one and thought it was a problem myself and wasted plenty of time trying to figure out what the problem was before I ended up calling them anyways. That's why I was so interested in having an answer ASAP. I JUST installed two 6000s today (yesterday now) and I don't know if the same condtion exists with them as well as I didn't notice it at the time.

So I agree with the concerns about other people thinking their T'stat was faulty, as you both did. I suspect circuitry limitations prevents it from reading down into the 100ths of a degree and adding the capability might boost the price to an unacceptable level. That's just a guess on my part however. I do think it's kind of dumb that a high tech t'stat such as this won't give you 1* increments for space temp readings but this is what they are saying. My thought is ok, if that's the way it's gotta be I guess I can live with it but how about making it VERY CLEAR in the install or operating instructions that this is the case so that similar questions will not leave people wondering if their new t'stat is messed up. I suggest if you DO call you might bring this up. You also might try just emailing them about it first and see if you can get results that way rather than sit on the phone waiting for a real live person to pick up. I found that to be the most annoying part of the whole situation but that's the way it's getting with customer support just about everywhere these days. It can be very frustrating, especially if you have an emergency situation of no heat or no cool that you can't figure out and want to speak to someone right away. Believe me, I've been there.

David Nadle

Thanks MPF

Thanks for calling Honeywell but I'm not sure I buy their explanation. I suppose one reason for decreasing accuracy around the setpoint would be if they got a lot of calls like "I set it to 68 and it reads 67 but the heat's not on." Now they're getting calls from the other side, which makes me smile.

World Plumber

old ones

The Pro 8000's I installed this will be their 3rd winter read fine in 1 degree incerments.

Unknown

Hmph,

Strange eh? Too bad we may never know the real story. Reminds me of a luthier I know. Makes classical guitars and charges big bucks for them. So in the process of talking back and forth with him over a few visits to his shop he tells me how he had to redesign the necks on his for some reason or another that was apparently a big problem. So one day he's displaying an older one at a show and, in front of someone else, I ask him if it had the old style neck or the new style neck. The other person says, "New style neck?" And he says, "Oh, yeah the old style neck had a big bolt in it that I did away with." I knew it was total BS but I kept my mouth shut after that. Never did buy one of them expensive guitars from him.

SusanC

Continued comment on VP8000

Thanks again (knew you were kidding, by the way, and I definitely was kidding about paying).

What I find strange now is that, at least on older VP8000s, some people are seeing 1° increments, while Chuck, JohnG and I see the 2° jumps. In any case, the thermostat is controlling well within the +/- 1° range; it's actually a little too sensitive on maintenance unless outdoor temperature is quite cold (and I do have it set correctly for 1 cph). I just wish Honeywell would come and repair my former thermostat-location-wall-holes.

I'm really glad that this thread was created because, even though my thermostat was doing OK heat-control-wise, I always thought it was kind of defective.

Unknown

\"I definitely was kidding about paying\"

You were? Damn, I just made it out... LOL!

Yes, I'm working on Sunday.

They may have experienced some problems with the older ones and the 1* increments that led to the change. Maybe not all of them, I don't know. Just guessing. The guy I talked to acted surprised when I mentioned the older t'stats having 1* increments. I think he said hmph himself. Me personally? I think they should take the temp display away altogether. People pay too much attention to the numbers instead of how they feel. The question is, "Are you comfortable?" if the answer is yes then who cares what the t'stat says? If the answer is no you punch the button one time only either up or down, wait a day and then if still no another punch of the button and wait etc until you are happy. The numbers are kind of a relative thing and each person percieves comfort just a little differently than every other. You should try keeping an office of say 40 people all comfortable at the same time. It's no easy task. The fat ones are too warm, the skinny ones are too cold and the middle of the roaders are juuuuust right. I believe that's a corollary of Murpy's law.