Piping

singh

and not piped away from expansion tank, a bigger concern, than the copper.

And is the second boiler in the background still connected to system?
Did you supply the boiler?

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Resnick

Steel or Copper

I installed a new boiler (hot water boiler) a couple of days ago and I have a question that have been itching my mind. I noticed the plumber only used copper piping to install the new boiler while the old boiler had some steel ( ie. from the supply hole to the air eliminator unit). I asked the plumber about it and he said it was fine but should I be concerned? or is this okay? I'm thinking it's okay since the boiler is running + it passed inspection. But I wanted to hear your thoughts. Thanks for yoru time.
[Please don't tell me I have to have my fire extinguisher handy :-( ]

Keith_8

preference

Depends,

On a traditional cast iron or steel boilers I use steel pipe and fittings for the connections to the boiler and the common headers. I never had much luck screwing a copper male adapter into the boiler block. The header being steel or copper after the air eliminator is strictly my preference, nothing wrong with copper and it's easier to work with.

He should have used a dielectric fitting at the transition from steel to copper. If not it's a code violation.

Mod cons are a different story altogether because you are attaching to a heat exchanger made of different material.

Keith


It's after the fact, as long as it

Big Ed_4

It should be code or good practice to use iron pipe on any serviceable boiler parts.

I cringe if I need to clean a flowvalve piped in copper.

Resnick

Just wanted to add, that he did use steel pipes to connect to both boilers ends (supply and return). I took some pictures as there are worth a thousand words(see below, hope the quality is good).

Boiler1 - is the supply side. And you can see that the other boiler we have (similar to the one we replaced) has steel.

Boiler2 - is the connection to the air eliminator unit
Boiler3 - the return side
Boiler4 - is a closeup pic of the supply port. Should I put some insulation material to cover this openning better or is that fine?

From the comments that have been posted already, it looks like I should not be concern with him using copper thoughout as long as he used steel for the connections directly to the boiler ports.

Unknown

Code violation ?

Using dielectric fittings on a hot water boiler is a code ? Everywhere ? I've been installing boilers 22 years and I haven't seen that type of fitting on a boiler yet . And can't understand the need for them .

steveex

The copper piping is fine to use however never let the installer drink while working. If you need a grade on the install C- you just passed

MIke_Jonas

Quick questions

How many btu output? What size is that copper being used for supply and return? 3/4"?

oil-2-4-6-gas

well you probably shopped around and went with the low price --it is preferred to have the pump on the supply side but unless you have a diverter tee system i wouldn't be too concerned hey you got what you paid for

Timco

could you take a more general picture of the entire boiler area & piping? Just wanted to see the rest. You may not need all the bells & whistles, but you deserve a good, NEAT install, and this looks like a bit of a mess. Check out the "best & worst" thread for good & bad installs, and see which look more like your install. Look at the install manual for your unit and see where they show the fill line entering the system. Ask your guy why he put yours where he did...it is just plain wrong...

Tim

Resnick

Thanks everyone for your replies. Regarding the pump question, when I looked at the boiler manual (Utica MBG 100kBTU) it did say that you can place the pump in the supply or return side so I'm guessing this is okay. Although in the installation pictures I saw it normally went in the supply side.

But yes, I do agree I got what I paid for, from looking at some of the other installation pictures. I did think he could have done it a bit cleaner.

When I looked at the boiler manual, I did noticed that the water feed line was between the air eleminator unit and the tank. Not at the beginning of the supply line like he did. I searched online to see if there were any issues with this setup but I could not find anything. From the installation manual and pictures I saw, it looked like it is placed anywhere. Although from the installation pictures of similar utica boiler it was as indicated in the manual.

I also searched if there was a reason why the vendor placed the water feed line as noted in the manual but I did not find anything.

Tim, I tried to get a better picture of the whole boiler but the room is a bit small and I could not get it right in the camera.

Timco

The feed ties in with the expansion tank behind the pump, so you are pumping away from the expansion tank, this is called the point of no pressure change. It is an industry standard, and cannot be just placed anywhere. You can have the pump on the return, but still need to pump away from the expansion tank. Please read Dan's book "Pumping Away". It will explain it all. What you have is wrong, and the manual may be wrong as well.

tim

Timco

I should add that the fill line & expansion tank typically tie into the air eliminator, which you want on the supply side where you get the hottest water, which means the pump goes on the supply side.

Tim

Resnick

Thanks Tim. I started searching the web (all I'm good for :-P ) and found this demonstration video (http://nynjrep.com/bell-gosssett-tank-location-video.htm) from this site (http://nynjrep.com/tech_ref.htm)that has a lot of information & videos, incase any one else is interested. And also this http://www.bellgossett.com/Press/CounterpointJan2001-A.pdf

From what I found, if I leave it like it is I can see the following problems (did I miss anything?):

Short Term: The pump will fail in a couple of years, frequent purging of air in system, a bit more noise, inefficient system.

Long Term: It can corrode the inside of the boiler.

Now, the big question, do you think he will change it? Because in theory he is done with the job. I only have to give him the last payment once he is done throwing the boiler away,etc (it's still in the backyard). I can also see him saying: this is how I do it and I have not had any problem. But I'll try to bring it up to him to see what he says.

I tell you this is a good learning experience. Next year I have to replace the other boiler so hopefully, I'll have an idea of what I'm getting into.

Timco

B&G are good folk, and very reputable. I am sure they agree with Dan's books and say to pump away. Everything you posted is correct. There is a reason for everything in a system like this, and your installer MUST be able to tell you WHY he chose to put these components where he did, which is just wrong and not very attractive. You deserve better, regardless of what you paid, period. You can even give him a formal invitation to stand up for his install here on the Wall...none of us know you or him and are very impartial...just honest...

Tim

Lil-Roc

Going back to the pipe sizing. Depending on boiler size GPM and Feet of Head you determin the size piping. the 3/4 line would be too small on most boilers. 100,000btuh would put you at 1-1/4 pipe.

Eileen Olive

mod/con pump & tank

ok, so why is my new TT prestige 110 calling for the air eliminator/expansion tank on the return side?

Charlie from wmass

Worst I have seen so far for undersized piping was a 12 zone system with two 225k btu boilers piped in series with 0ne 007 circulator and one inch copper piping. gee do you see a problem? I do wish I had taken pictures as the before and after was amazing. BTW the job was installed by the low bidder and fixed by the high bidder for triple the original price difference.

The question is not can you afford to pay for the better job, it is can you afford not to?