\"But you were more money\".........heatboy

hb_7

.............when I asked why I wasn't hired last year to repair and upgrade this system. Well, now I am hired to repair what was repaired . What goes around..........

Tell me what you see. There is a primary pump on the main, which isn't shown. That's a hint.

Jed_2

Injection Flow Rate

Seems it would pretty unlikely to maintain the right injection flow rate with that arrangement, not to mention the added head preasure.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Where's the Hydraulic Separation?

The "primary" loop runs clean through the last circuit shown on the right side of the pic with bullhead tees attempting to divide the rest. Talk about battle of the circulators...

John Starcher_4

The mixing blocks aren't plugged in, and the device on the left appears to be showing negative pressure on the left hand side gauge.

They did not use primary/secondary piping, either.

Jed_2

They

better not be plugged in as pictured,and demand enabled, or you'd soon lose your circs; check out the ball valves.

heatboy_8

It doesn't work with the primary.....

.....running or not. If the primary pump is running, hot water just goes out to the radiant with no control due to the pressure difference the pump creates. You would think the being piped direct return it should work without the primary running. When the injection pumps run without the primary, the water just circulates around the primary side of the 4-way valve on the Tekmar because it thepast of least. So unless the 4 way is operating the injection pumps can't get boiler water.

Question is, how to re-pipe so it all works. What do you think?

ScottMP

If those are the primary

pipes I would just use the Caleffi Hydro-link. I like the way you used it in the other post.

Jeff, have you used the I-Radiant Valve ? I use them all the time for small loads.

Scott


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Darin Cook_5

Hackers

We all could make a living just fixing this kind of crap out there. It also shows how fast good equipment can be made - bad. It also stinks that it is all pro-press fittings. You will have to cut everything apart not being able to re-use anything. I very rarely use my press tool anymore.





Darin

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Paul Rohrs_7

Dept of Redundancy Dept

Was the 4-way added at the same time as the mixing blocks? It seems like it is unecessary in that the mixing blocks with VSIM each have boiler minimum features that will protect the boiler.

I would cut out the 4-way and re-pipe the mixing blocks directly as secondary loops, and re-establish the primary loop pump engaging anytime a call for heat exists.

Paul

Mark Eatherton

Time for Sawzall surgery...

Cut it all out and start from scratch. The consumer knows they will have to pay "budget ignorance tax". They are obviously tired of being uncomfortable.

How do you put a price on COMFORT?

I know some attorney's that can put a price on DIS-comfort, but to the best of my knowledge, comfort is PRICELESS!

Tell her you will donate the equipment to Habitat for Humanity so they can at least write off the material costs of the debacle.

There ought to be a law... Wait a minute, there IS a law!?!

Go get 'em Jeff. Make them comfortable.

ME

Steve Ebels_3

See it all the time

I have a guy with a Vitola running an infloor "system" who has called me about this time every year since 2005. Every year I give him an estimate of the cost to straighten out the mess in his new log house. Every year he says he doesn't want to spend that much money on a new system. Every year he blames the boiler and every year I tell him that all the boiler does is make hot water, the system tells it where to go and when. Every year I hear through the grapevine that he's gotten another guy in there to make it work. They try different pumps, changing the operation of the Dekamatic, recommend this or that but so far no one has addressed the fact that the piping is just plain screwed up. Fatally screwed up. It will never work the way it is.

I have hope yet that some day he'll realize it's not just pipes and any idiot can put them together.......but with each passing year that flame of hope grows more faint. I have yet to find a good way to communicate the fact that the most important thing people buy when hiring a contractor is that person's knowledge and skill.

Probably 99.5 % of customers look at pictures of jobs here and elsewhere and just see a T for example. They don't realize or understand how the exact placement of that T can affect the performance of the entire system. If they don't or can't understand that concept then the next logical stop on the train of thought is totally overlooked. That stop being that the tradesman has to know how to do it and some do, some don't.

As for your system there HB, everything between the boiler and the zone piping has to go to the scrap yard. Looks like the original installer thought that just using fancy equipment automatically makes a system work.

heatboy_9

Originally......

.....this had three of those early generation (circa mid 80's) Tekmar mixing blocks. Two were not working, but the one pictured still does. Since there are no parts available for it, I proposed removing it with the two defective units. One Belimo motorized valve, one control and three pumps would have worked nicely since water temps are relative to each other. Too much money, I am told.

What I will initially propose this round is to keep the old Tekmar, since it still operates, but pipe it as a secondary of a real primary loop. The new units need a primary loop anyway, so piping the older one that way will allow for the eventual changing without any more major surgery, when it fails.

That is, of course, unless it's too much money (g). ME, can I re-use the "Budget Ignorant Tax" phrase. I love it!

heatboy_9

If it's installed.......

......the way it should be, it won't have to be removed. Correct?

You can have my ProPress when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!

Unknown

Too bad,,,

scrap copper prices took such a dive last week.

Derheatmeister

Sawzall surgery

Just did an "Sawzall Surgery" couple months ago

The domestic Hot water was based on outdoor reset..

The original installer had the guts to give me an Harrasing " complain" call to me about me wanting to fix it..

Mark Eatherton

Absolutely....

I've been using your "It's not so much a matter of you got what you paid for, as is it is You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for..."

Fair trade :-)

ME

Mitch_4

been there walked away

home made in slab radiant.."can you fix"

find out he has 1 LONG continuous loop through out whole house....

no I says...

Unknown

Did you laugh,,,

and shake your head first?