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The logomatic has a parameter called pump logic that prevents cold water from circulating until the boiler reaches a certain value (104F) before the circulating pump can turn on.
I have a Buderus G124x -32/5 boyler and just found out that it's just 84.6 efficient. I am considering buying the Buderus Logamatic 2107 control to improve efficiency. Current fuel prices make it worthwhile (I think). My questions are, I live in Nassau County Long Island is it worth it? it's going to be about $1,000.00 for installation plus additional sensors (I have 3 zones)what do should I expect to get out of it. Is there another product that does what this promises at a lower cost? or is it a good quality system and you get what you pay for. I have a one-pipe system with baseboard convectors (If it matters)
I have the Same Boiler and Controls
I just installed mine last April (did it myself)and last night was the first time I turned it on. I live in northern NJ, but here are my observations from what I saw. My wife said you need to take the chill off the house because the temperature was 62F. So, I flipped it on and the boiler only heated the water to 120F. It did take longer to heat the house, but the boiler only came on for three - two minute burns. It was just circulating warm water. Whereas my old furnace would fire-up and run until reached 180F water. This morning the temperature outside was a little cooler and the boiler went up to 128F. I have last years gas bills and can't wait to compare my old setup to my new Buderus G124X/32 w/Logomatic 2107...GaryNJ0
Great control but..............
way more than you need. Don't get be wrong, the 2107 is a great control but if your just looking for an outdoor reset to use in conjunction with baseboard a standard off the shelf Tekmar, Honeywell or any other outdoor reset will achieve what you want it to do for much less. The control has many functions but is very limited in what it can do for your system. I'm certainly not bad mouthing the control just trying to be realistic.0
Is this an Condensing Boiler?0
you may want to keep it from condensing??0
HO with Buderus G115 and Logomatic
The Buderus Forum on its site has many tips on how to apply the Logamatic. They suggest setting the Logamatic day and night temp settings a few degrees above the room thermostat setting. And of course you can adjust the ref temp, and offset to fine tune the curve.
As for length of time to recoup from setback, the only drawback I've found with the Logamatic is that it has no morning boost that lets the boiler run the highest water temp until day temp is reached. Which means if you use a large night setback--5 degrees or so--it will take a long time to get back up to day temp. So if you have the large night setback, and you're ramping up the heating curve to attain day temp sooner, that's cutting into efficiency. We've found best to keep a 2-3 degree setback at night, but that's a personal comfort choice.
Another issue with the 2107 is it only has one pump circut. I love the control and have had one for about eleven years now. I wonder if the best way to set up a multi zone system using a 2107 is to use the pump leg to power a Honeywell AQ250 relay control panel. Then you get the best of both worlds multi zoning and all thew great featurs of the 2107. An other thing niether one of these controls are going to increase combustion efficency noticably at a steady state really only system eff. Correct me if I'm wrong.0
Recoup From Setback
Yes, I did notice that if you have a large setback it does take time to recoup; however, my Honeywell theormstats have a feature that learns how long it takes to return to normal temperature and adjusts the starting times on future recoveries.0
As far as I know
those intelligent recovery t-stats will only partially solve that problem in that they only control the on/off of the circulators, not the boiler water temperature, which the Logamatic controls. So the t-stat may call for heat early one day, but that will circulate water that is likely not hot enough (the Logamatic still being on the reset curve) to make up the setback quickly enough. The intelligent recovery t-stats would obviously work great with your old non outdoor reset boiler.
As far as matthew's comments, we do have two zones set up--each with the same heating curve of course, each with its own circ. third circuit is the indirect hwh. There are add-on modules to the Logamatic that can add to its capability. Efficiency wise, hopefully the boiler was sized properly to the heat loss, which by itself will curtail short cycling equals better combustion efficiency. In our case the smallest Buderus unit --the G115/21-- was still 30% oversized, so if I'd had my druthers I would have added a buffer tank. Again I'm a homeowner explaining this as best I can from my limited experience.
David, would adding the indoor sensor help with morning recovery? In tekmar world, the indoor sensor uses the space temp to adjust the reset curve. The result is very nice recovery from setback. Perhaps it works the same in Buderus world? I dunno, just tossing out an idea.0
better to ask [email protected] that one
That's a little out of my league. I know there are advantages to the indoor sensor which the manual should explain. I'd heard that Tekmar controls have the morning boost and if I'd had to do it over again, that one feature might sway me to get a Tekmar control.
The only other thing that I recall being done to come back from a large setback without jacking up the curve is to make your Logamatic (and t-stat) day setting kick in around 5am instead of 6; the extra hour helps, but of course you're losing efficiency, but to partially compensate you can kick in the night settings at 9pm instead of 10, etc.
That is what I did David. I have the daytime curve kick in an hour earlier, so that I'm working with hotter water in the morning.0
David the add on for the 2107 is a mix module for low temp also there is a a space for a solar card in there. In my opinion you should reset your boiler and the 2107 is a great control as is the HWAQ2514B2 with their AQ1000Tn2 room sensors. This control has almost all of the features of the 2107 and it is cheaper more versitial and more intuitive. By reseting your boiler you can deminish a little the fact the it is hard to get an oil fired boiler that is small enough.0
Hope all this info is interesting to Peter who started this...
Matthew I'm not sure if I understand--the boiler is already on outdoor reset; I recall vaguely that 'boiler reset' is different, not sure how that would be done. I don't really have a severe short-cycling problem--cycles seem at least 10-15 minutes when it's cold out.
Compared to the old boiler, oil usage is down 30 percent. no real complaints; I was saying in ideal terms buffer would be good.
Ya got home had a beer and started thinking on the keyboard. not really paying too much attention to who started the post. some times I just get thinking and talking/writing and befor you know it im in the cellar.
But I gotta say it is fun to be apart of this group who all has the same interests who think cellars are cool and find heating systems more interesting that TVs
Well Said Matthew
Couldn't agree with you more.
Ron------(G115/2107 owner/beer drinker/cellar dweller)0
I have the BFU room sensor; it gives you the benefit of constant circulation which I do not believe you get on the 2107 alone, and therefore works great with baseboard or convector type emitters. There are cheaper controls, but the BFU room sensor and 2107 plug and play with Buderus quite nicely.0
I will bump this up a bit and say.....
I met Ron at an event a couple weeks back, and have to say He's one of the homeowners that could teach us all a few things Buderus!
He's taken the time to get NORA certified, albeit in a roundabout way(inside joke!).
Any word from the top there Ron? UPS tracking devices WERE enclosed this time, RIGHT? Chris0
So when I get the results I can say I passed, twice. These forums are great and without them I'd still be sporting a builders dry base boiler. Buderus is no doubt a cut above and I'm saving oil and $$$ with much better comfort.
I am glad i found this forum lot's of great information without sales pressure I leaning more towarsds the buderus logamatic unit with thermostats with outside probes what are yur toughts and or recommendations0
Why 104 F ??0
Not sure why 104F, but that is the default setting from Buderus that can be changed, but I left it at 104F. See http://www.buderus.net/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=uF8RzNe4gwU=&tabid=273&mid=862
Page 17...Pump Logic0
Any suggestions to where I can purchase a "BFU" room sensor for my "G115/28 R2107" on the internet.
This discussion has been closed.
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