circuit setters preferences

clammy

Thanks Brad and Dan,yea it makes sense especially the flow setter on the by pass i nearly forgot that ,the units do not have a fresh air make up and the building is in a negative pressure due to issue with no make up air on 2 of the kitchen smaller hoods which are impossible to get make up air to or to add a smaller make air to because there is just no where to mount on either the outside walls or roof (10 on 12 roof pitch )The attic is unheated and the supply and return are ran from the boiler room to the attic then back down to the first floor units the freeze protection would basically be for the loop ,the unit fan run constant which keeps the 2 nd floor from over heating and short cycling the ac and generally a more comfortable and less temp swing ,the second floor system consistes of 3 5 ton units being controlled by a temperture averaging t stat the 1 st stage of cooling is 2 5 ton units and the second stage brings on a 3 rd unit and it's fan,all the duct work has been done over and is insulated with r 8 wrapp and all r 8 flex .The heating side is just one loop with a taco 007 serving the 4 coils a baseboard loop and a indirect lots of ghost flows and migration during the cooling season .i like the idea of using fail open valves (2 way ) and using good balancing valves ,i was thinking of installing a standard zone valve controlled by a well aquastat set to say 45 degrees as a by pass across the supply and return to prevent the loop from freezing since they do run up to the attic on a outside wall and then go back down to the 1 st floor again on a outside wall about 12 ft cieling height .There where some issues last winter with heat due to the lack of make up air thanks again clammy

clammy

circuit setters system balancing advise

i am looking on improving a badly layed out and installed hydro air system in a 2 story resturment /bar consisting of 4 residental air handlers equipted with hot water coils ,2 units are located in a attic and 2 units between the 1st and 2 nd floor .All the zone valves are located near each coil and a there is a lack of flow to the second floor units when the first floor units call,there is no freeze protection nor balancing valves ,the zone valves are honeywell standard residenal stuff ,this loop also picks up a office baseboard loop and a indirect water heater also no flow checks so there's lot of migrating durning the summer on calls from the indirect ,What brand of circuit setters would you reccomend and what options for freeze pervention besides constant circuit with 3 way valves thanks in advance clammy

Brad White_200

Balancing Valves

My personal favorites by far are Macon Controls #STV. They are available through and imported by Tunstall Corp. They can also direct you to a local source.

In general, I favor the multi-turn wye-pattern type valves. The smaller ones up to 2-inch size, for most manufacturers, feature 4-turns open to closed or 1440 degrees of turning.

The Macon STV valves in those sizes have a full TEN turns, 3600 degrees of rotation which spells accuracy to me. No cost difference that I know of.

When the gauges are set up, you turn them and the gauge needle moves only so much per turn. Response is very accurate and linear.

One other feature I like is that with each rotation, there is a perceptible "click" at the "dot-zero mark", so if you are adjusting blindly, you have at least a benchmark.

All such valves have integral P&T ports so your flow can be read and temperatures taken.

By contrast, I do not like using ball-valve type "circuit setters". These valves have only 90 degrees open to closed and the last 45 degrees does all of the work. Too much or too little is not good water flow management.


As you know, these or any balancing valves will not stop ghost flow (ok, will slow it down a bit). Only flow checks or siphon loops will do that, if not both. I have no answer.

Unless the air handlers handle outside air, I would not worry so much about freeze protection. If they do handle outside air (asking a lot of residential equipment!), we do use a circulator and fail-open valve, plus a freeze-stat to shut down the unit, close the OA damper, open the HW valve (spring-open to fail, powered closed).

If you DO use three-way valves, be sure to put balancing valves on the bypass port, to equal the pressure drop of the coil and valve in series. Otherwise, when you go into bypass, your water sees half the pressure drop it did a second ago. You will draw much more water and starve other areas unless you restrict it so it sees no difference.

Does that make sense?

Brad

Dan Foley

Balance Valves

I've never used the Macon valves but I'll have to check them out. We have used ESBE valves by the hundreds and we like them for similar reasons Brad listed so eloquently above. -DF

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Ross_7

I'm with Brad on this one

Tunstall/Macon are top notch. I believe that they were Tour & Andersson at one time. Nice unit. Much more adjustable compared to Taco or B&G, not that there is anything wrong with those brands, just preference.

Brad White_200

Similar

Thank you for your concurrence, gentlemen

The Macon valves are not and never were T&A valves that I know of. Both are Swedish in manufacture, so let it be said that one cannot understand the engineers there for more than one reason, (orgy-borgy...) And I am half-Swedish too.

Another Macon feature I did not mention is that the P&T ports are off to the side at an angle, a little easier to get to in some cases and makes for a compact installation. Hard to describe but when you see one you will know.

As Ross said, nothing against the other brands, but just preference.