Gas conversion burner

World Plumber

The boiler is a peerless JO-5. I can usually get 83 to 84 percent effency out of them with a retension burner. The unit has a peerless burner, it's apears to be a Beckett. I haven't pulled it apart yet so I don't know if it is a retension burner or not. Now that I know it's not split I'll open it up. They have 3 gas water heaters and the oil boiler in the same chimney. That was one of my reasons for thinking a gas conversion burner. He plans to live on the second flor for 2 to 3 years then renovate the bar into an appartment. At that time put in 2 smaller boilers.

World Plumber

Gas conversion burner

Has anyone observed, is there enough savings in fuel costs to justify recommending pulling the oil burner out and replacing it with gas. I'm repairing all the frozen pipes in what was a resturant/bar that's being converted to a home. I have gas (1-1/2") that was there for hot water and cooking. The boiler is holding 30 psi air and appears to be in good condition.

tim smith

Re : gas conversion

Ideally you would get a new high efficiency boiler but if that's not in the cards then if the boiler will accept a conversion burner, based on type of boiler and size of firebox, then yes a conversion burner could be feasible financially. Good luck, Tim

Unknown

A bill of some sort

is still involved, if they couldn`t pay for oil, can they pay for NG?
The old boiler may hold pressure but not suitable for conversion, I would check with the utility.

Dave

Unknown

Properly installed

you can expect a combustion efficiency of 80 to 83%. The installation should only be undertaken by a gas professional properly trained on the installation and testing process.

After installing over 3,500 conversion burners I can say with out reservation that every one of them saved the customer money on the operation of the equipment.

Several 100 of them were actually monitered for 5 years for cost to operate compared to a comparable oil boiler and the findings averaged a savings of 15%.

Unknown

Can I question Tim?

Combustion efficiency is one thing, if the unit is a piece of crap, that`s another.
A properly set-up oil unit can burn well, but the unit,, well,,,

Dave

Unknown

I am always open

to questions???

Unknown

Thanks Tim,

you`re a great guy, but I have some unexpected company so can we pick this up tomorrow?
I look forward to our conversation.

Dave

tim smith

Dave, other Tim here. Regarding boiler POC or not

Even if the boiler is old and thermally not very efficient, some people just don't have the money for a new boiler and a CB could very likely be installed for 25% of the cost of a new boiler and still provide anywhere from 20 to 40% fuel cost savings over the old oil burner. Financially, this may be the only way for some people to get off the petroleum teet and stop supporting big oil at the same time save $$ on their energy bill. As I stated above, ideally a new boiler would be nice but not always in the cards. Tim

Unknown

Tim Smith that is

exactly what is happening here in RI, we are already in a recession.Folks here can't buy a new boiler but they can install power conversion burner here for roughly $3,000.

We need to get off of the oil dependency and conversion is one of the answers.

Carol_9

I have steam heat and was told,,,,,,,

and also read that it could actually cost more to heat with gas than oil because oil burns hotter than gas and it takes longer to heat up to temp with gas so you could actually end up spending more money.

They also stated if the system is 10 years old they recommend putting in a new one.

I didn't convert because I still don't know if it would actually be a savings or not.

tim smith

Carol, regarding that remark about might be more$$ w/ gas burner

Not likely, depending on what current oil prices are in your area and what gas prices are. It is easy to calculate the appx savings. Find out what a therm of gas costs in your area, then multiply that by 1.44, this accounts for the difference in heat content between a therm of gas and a gallon of oil + 4% efficiency difference which oil might get this much better efficiency out of same amount of btus. That is gendrous. This will give you a very close same cost basis for gas as a gallon of oil. Then see what you pay for oil per gals and compare. Not much to argue after you do this. Good luck, Tim

Steamhead (in transit)

And be sure

to include all the little taxes and fees that the gas company uses the really small print for, so you'll miss them.

The easiest way to do this is to divide the total number of therms used into what you paid for gas in that billing period. The result is the price per therm. Don't be surprised if it's way higher than what's advertised.

In general, the price for a gallon of oil includes all taxes and fees.

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Carol_9

Gas vs Oil savings........

Tim,

The first thing I said to the guy was "Are you going to tell me that at the cost of oil these days that I would spend more using gas?!" of course I got no answer.

But one of my concerns was I know several people in the past that also had steam heat and converted from oil to gas and they always said their house never felt as warm. I did read about this in an article and it basically said because oil heats hotter and quicker than gas that it takes the house longer to reach the desired temp. I'll have to see if I can find the article.

I'll also have to see if I can figure out if there would be a savings or not by the formula you posted.

tim smith

Steamhead, that's exactly what you need to do

But in the final outcome it will be cheaper by a fair amount. I alway's look at the real difference. 5 to 10 yrs ago customers would call me looking to switch and I would tell them that there is really no savings but now it's much more desireable. Always hard to predict what oil will do but gas is much more stable as far as price even though it still goes up. Tim

Carol_9

Okay I did the conversion math.......

a therm - not adding in delivery charges of about $11.00 a month - comes out to be $2.33 and oil right now is about $3.25 a gallon here. So if in fact a therm of gas equals a gallon of oil there would be a savings.

I already have gas in the house for stove and dryer, but was told gas pipe wasn't big enough to add a conversion on without being repiped. How big does pipe have to be in order to handle all 3 units at the same time? Is it just a certain length of pipe that has to be increased or the whole line from the meter on?

Steamhead (in transit)

It doesn't

a therm of gas is 100,000 BTU, and a gallon of oil 139,500 BTU or so. By the figures you gave, the cost per BTU of the two fuels in your area is the same, and the delivery charge makes gas a bit higher.

You won't save by converting.

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Carol_9

Redid math............

actually I was off a little, gas price actually went down a bit. But it would still be about $2.26 per therm not counting delivery charge of about $11.00.

Guess I'm up **** creek as usual!

tim smith

Carol, is that 2.26 after you multiplied gas cost x 1.45 or is

that the cost of gas per therm before multiplying out. If it is after adding for the difference in btu of a therm vs a gallong of oil, then it looks like you would have appx a 30% savings

Carol_9

The $2.26 cost

was after I multiplied it by 1.44.

But if I have to pay $3000 to convert and then possibly have to pay for resizing the gas line I'm not really going to be saving much.

Sort of pay me now or pay me later. Only difference is with gas you can put off paying the bill, with oil you pay when the truck pulls up.

tim smith

How much is your annual oil bill???

Carol_9

My oil bill is.........

a lot! And depending on prices some winters more so than others.

I have a very large old house, when I bought it it had aluminum siding which I ripped off and put on vinyl siding with insulation board.......and that's about the only insulation in or on the house - but that alone actually cut my fuel consumption almost in half.
I can blow through 150 gallons of oil in 2 to 3 weeks depending on temperature - and that's conserving. This is why I wanted to drain the forced hot water system on the 3rd floor, I'm paying to heat space no one is really using. (what did you mean by keeping water in the loop if possible)